Bernard Haitink (1929-2021)

[Petrushka]

BH recorded for Decca long after he left Amsterdam, and Phillips and Decca weren’t in the same conglomerate in those days, so he had plenty of time to record Mozart had he wished. I think there are nine Bruckner Sevenths, multiple Mahler 3s, etc. it would have been nice to skip some of these remakes and hit some parts of the repertoire that he didn’t visit. I understand that his Mozart Opera recordings were quite good so it was an opportunity missed to not do the symphonies.
As for his apparent dislike of Sibelius, I find that strange from an avowed Brucknerian. Sibelius openly acknowledged his debt to Bruckner, and BH recorded all of the Vaughn Williams Symphonies, and RVW admired Sibelius. Oh well, more opportunities missed

Conductors are not in a position to dictate to the record companies what they want to record, unless your name was Karajan and even he didn't get away with it all of the time. Perhaps Haitink and Mozart wasn't a combination that the record executives thought would sell? The competition was stiff and they might have been right at the time but not in hindsight.

Agree with your comments re Sibelius/Bruckner/RVW but we have to respect a conductor's decision that certain composers are not for them and that others can do them better.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Conductors are not in a position to dictate to the record companies what they want to record, unless your name was Karajan and even he didn't get away with it all of the time. Perhaps Haitink and Mozart wasn't a combination that the record executives thought would sell? The competition was stiff and they might have been right at the time but not in hindsight.

Agree with your comments re Sibelius/Bruckner/RVW but we have to respect a conductor's decision that certain composers are not for them and that others can do them better.

I’m not sure that’s completely right - I don’t think Haitink would have been dictatorial about this . Until relatively recently an artist of the stature of Haitink would certainly be able to pick what pieces he wanted to record particularly if it was mainstream fare like Mozart or Sibelius. The “difficulty” would be with either big budget recordings e.g. Opera or more recondite fare e.g Schoenberg even Bartok - “Mahler 3 fine , Moses and Aaron - no thanks” . It’s there that a bit of horse trading takes place - or used to take place as there are fewer big release orchestral recordings now than forty years ago. Because of the saturation of CD / stream versions of the the mainstream repertoire quite a few orchestras don’t have record company contracts now.

[Darkbloom]

Colin Davis even re-recorded some of the London Symphonies for LSO Live. Haitink worked a lot with the LSO in his final decade, you'd think that someone would have asked him to record some Haydn.

[Petrushka]

Colin Davis even re-recorded some of the London Symphonies for LSO Live. Haitink worked a lot with the LSO in his final decade, you'd think that someone would have asked him to record some Haydn.

The first time I saw Haitink and the Concertgebouw, in February 1979, a terrific performance of the Mahler 5 was preceded by a wonderfully elegant Haydn 86. This was what he did frequently in the first half of those Bruckner/Mahler concerts, either a Haydn symphony or Mozart symphony/piano concerto. Everybody wanted the Mahler/Bruckner/Strauss etc on record but never the Mozart or Haydn.

It's a thought I had some years ago but wish I'd asked him about this on one of my backstage visits when the opportunity was there.

[jayne lee wilson]

Surprised to stumble across these......

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-No-Miracle-Haitink-Vinyl/dp/B01B7QFQ68/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=Haitink+Haydn&qid=1635176070&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&sr=8-14&sres=B00KZ5RPCQ%2CB01960Q3AU%2CB001DCQI9Q%2CB00D56AD8K%2CB000068QRT%2CB0000041AQ%2CB01M3RIZWF%2CB01K8L9H5O%2CB00PSQ4F3O%2CB000025615%2CB01DOOP5LC%2CB0002KVVBA%2CB01B7QFQ68%2CB00VXGXSPE%2CB00765JV66%2CB000J10460&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

Worth a CD transfer? Who knows?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Haydn-Creation-Bernard-Haitink-Camilla/dp/B00KZ5RPCQ/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Haitink+Haydn&qid=1635176055&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&sr=8-1&sres=B00KZ5RPCQ%2CB01960Q3AU%2CB001DCQI9Q%2CB00D56AD8K%2CB000068QRT%2CB0000041AQ%2CB01M3RIZWF%2CB01K8L9H5O%2CB00PSQ4F3O%2CB000025615%2CB01DOOP5LC%2CB0002KVVBA%2CB01B7QFQ68%2CB00VXGXSPE%2CB00765JV66%2CB000J10460&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

I saw a Bridgewater Bruckner 6 (Staatskapelle) live in 2003, preceded by the Haydn 86......it did seem a little too restrained, a shade too much the prelude-to.....
Perhaps the Great St. Bernard of Music felt he couldn't do everything ample justice in his time on Earth....but he did so, so much....

[Bryn]

Surprised to stumble across these......

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-No-Miracle-Haitink-Vinyl/dp/B01B7QFQ68/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=Haitink+Haydn&qid=1635176070&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&sr=8-14&sres=B00KZ5RPCQ%2CB01960Q3AU%2CB001DCQI9Q%2CB00D56AD8K%2CB000068QRT%2CB0000041AQ%2CB01M3RIZWF%2CB01K8L9H5O%2CB00PSQ4F3O%2CB000025615%2CB01DOOP5LC%2CB0002KVVBA%2CB01B7QFQ68%2CB00VXGXSPE%2CB00765JV66%2CB000J10460&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

Worth a CD transfer? Who knows?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Haydn-Creation-Bernard-Haitink-Camilla/dp/B00KZ5RPCQ/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Haitink+Haydn&qid=1635176055&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&sr=8-1&sres=B00KZ5RPCQ%2CB01960Q3AU%2CB001DCQI9Q%2CB00D56AD8K%2CB000068QRT%2CB0000041AQ%2CB01M3RIZWF%2CB01K8L9H5O%2CB00PSQ4F3O%2CB000025615%2CB01DOOP5LC%2CB0002KVVBA%2CB01B7QFQ68%2CB00VXGXSPE%2CB00765JV66%2CB000J10460&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

I saw a Bridgewater Bruckner 6 (Staatskapelle) live in 2003, preceded by the Haydn 86......it did seem a little too restrained, a shade too much the prelude-to.....
Perhaps the Great St. Bernard of Music felt he couldn't do everything ample justice in his time on Earth....but he did so, so much....

Both The Creation and The Seasons on https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/18/000123281.pdf

[jayne lee wilson]

Both The Creation and The Seasons on https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/18/000123281.pdf

Or here.......

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/bernard-haitink-portrait-live-symphonieorchester-des-bayerischen-rundfunks-bernard-haitink/d8xzjmyp7nsuc

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Haitink-Symphonieorchester-Bayerischen-Rundfunks-Elisabeth/dp/B07L5VN3T5/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=haitink+portrait&qid=1635177214&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&sr=8-1&sres=B07L5VN3T5%2CB079ZSSHYV%2CB00D2PB34W%2CB00D56AD8K%2CB07WHMR5XZ%2CB000004CVM%2CB00000IX81%2CB009H1DRV2%2CB00151HZ3S%2CB00007BGXT%2CB00GMVBL7W%2CB0000647HT%2CB005JOPSCC%2CB0033KR5ZC%2CB00000DOCS%2CB00004LMYI&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

....and Mozart Operas of course.....

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/search?q=haitink+mozart&i=boutique

[Darkbloom]

The first time I saw Haitink and the Concertgebouw, in February 1979, a terrific performance of the Mahler 5 was preceded by a wonderfully elegant Haydn 86. This was what he did frequently in the first half of those Bruckner/Mahler concerts, either a Haydn symphony or Mozart symphony/piano concerto. Everybody wanted the Mahler/Bruckner/Strauss etc on record but never the Mozart or Haydn.

It's a thought I had some years ago but wish I'd asked him about this on one of my backstage visits when the opportunity was there.

There's so much to enjoy in his discography that those gaps seem all the more frustrating. We all know how outstanding he was in Wagner but you'd never know it from his Ring, which was recorded too early and with an inferior cast, mostly. I suppose we can't have everything but the lack of a 2-disc set of the final Mozart symphonies is inexplicable.

[Petrushka]

Surprised to stumble across these......

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-No-Miracle-Haitink-Vinyl/dp/B01B7QFQ68/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=Haitink+Haydn&qid=1635176070&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&sr=8-14&sres=B00KZ5RPCQ%2CB01960Q3AU%2CB001DCQI9Q%2CB00D56AD8K%2CB000068QRT%2CB0000041AQ%2CB01M3RIZWF%2CB01K8L9H5O%2CB00PSQ4F3O%2CB000025615%2CB01DOOP5LC%2CB0002KVVBA%2CB01B7QFQ68%2CB00VXGXSPE%2CB00765JV66%2CB000J10460&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

Worth a CD transfer? Who knows?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Haydn-Creation-Bernard-Haitink-Camilla/dp/B00KZ5RPCQ/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Haitink+Haydn&qid=1635176055&qsid=257-5213790-5190351&sr=8-1&sres=B00KZ5RPCQ%2CB01960Q3AU%2CB001DCQI9Q%2CB00D56AD8K%2CB000068QRT%2CB0000041AQ%2CB01M3RIZWF%2CB01K8L9H5O%2CB00PSQ4F3O%2CB000025615%2CB01DOOP5LC%2CB0002KVVBA%2CB01B7QFQ68%2CB00VXGXSPE%2CB00765JV66%2CB000J10460&srpt=ABIS_MUSIC

I saw a Bridgewater Bruckner 6 (Staatskapelle) live in 2003, preceded by the Haydn 86......it did seem a little too restrained, a shade too much the prelude-to.....
Perhaps the Great St. Bernard of Music felt he couldn't do everything ample justice in his time on Earth....but he did so, so much....

Those two Concertgebouw Haydn symphonies had a CD release in this boxed set, Bernard Haitink the Phiips Years: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bernard-Hai...rpt=ABIS_MUSIC

They were recorded in 1964.

[jayne lee wilson]

Those two Concertgebouw Haydn symphonies had a CD release in this boxed set, Bernard Haitink the Phiips Years: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bernard-Hai...rpt=ABIS_MUSIC

Thanks Pet!
Here too.....

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/bernard-haitink-the-philips-years-henryk-szeryng-royal-concertgebouw-orchestra-beaux-arts-trio-london-philharmonic-orchestra-alfred-brendel-arthur-grumiaux/0002894785671

[underthecountertenor]

One of the most memorable Haitink concerts I attended was the Berliner Philharmoniker's 1993 Europa Concert given in the Royal Albert Hall.

Due the the time difference and as it was being being broadcast live throughout Europe (though not in the UK naturally), the concert began at 10 o'clock on that Saturday morning. Not usually the sort of time or day I'd be sitting in the RAH for a concert but it was superb. The programme was Tchaikovsky R&J, Mozart VC 3 (with Frank Peter Zimmermann) and Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. BBC cameras were used yet it's never been broadcast by them. However, it's available on DVD and very good it is too..

I was there for that (having done some ill-advised impromptu May morning madrigal singing in Covent Garden at a very early hour). It was terrific, and very memorable. We wandered out into Hyde Park in a daze afterwards and drank wine copiously.

[richardfinegold]

Conductors are not in a position to dictate to the record companies what they want to record, unless your name was Karajan and even he didn't get away with it all of the time. Perhaps Haitink and Mozart wasn't a combination that the record executives thought would sell? The competition was stiff and they might have been right at the time but not in hindsight.

Agree with your comments re Sibelius/Bruckner/RVW but we have to respect a conductor's decision that certain composers are not for them and that others can do them better.

BH was in a position to dictate what he recorded. He has ascended to the heights of Karajan and others that were given a lot of latitude. I am not sure how you otherwise explain 9 different performances of Bruckner 7 in the catalog. Perhaps in his younger days he had to kow tow record executives but even then he showed a fierce streak of independence. Note the recordings of the Beethoven and Brahms VCs that he made with Herman Krebbers, the Concertgebouw Concert Master. I remember reading an interview with Haitink decades ago where he stated that he had to fight with record company executives, who argued that there was no market for Standard Repetoire conducted by unknown Concert Masters. BH replied that he thought Krebbers deserved the shot and while he obviously had to struggle with the executives he must have won the battle because those releases happened. I would presume that his clout increased from those years on.
He must have clearly wished not to record Mozart, Sibelius, Rachmaninov, etc. That is ok, no one should have to perform music that just don't wish to perform, and I'm really not criticizing BH for having his priorities. It's just to bad for those of us who admired his work that his inclinations didnt run in certain directions

[jayne lee wilson]

It is a strangely persistent idea that Record Companies tell Conductors what to record....if anyone has such citations I'd be interested to read them.
I recall when Krill Petrenko took over at the Berlin Phil, someone here claimed that the repertoire of his first few concerts "will have been chosen for him..."

Trouble was, Petrenko had given an interview on the DCH just a few weeks before, explaining very precisely why he had chosen to program those very concerts as he did.....
I gave the link.... the claimant didn't respond....

Of course some bargaining goes on. When Previn was riding high at the LSO, he told of how he would agree to some pop-classic or other if the Company or Promoter would let him do Nielsen, Messiaen, Britten, Walton or something else less obviously a crowdpleaser... and so on....

Anyone who has read of Rattle's time in Berlin or at the CBSO will know that he was certainly not to be messed with in such a way, devising whole series of concerts or recordings because he felt compelled by the project, by his own passions and interests. Or famously refusing to record the Bartok MSPC because at the first session, the orchestral personnel had changed from the previous concerts...!

His remarkable debut in Berlin was the Mahler 6 - one of the all-time great performances (and recordings), and no-one told him to do that! It was a magnificent statement of intent....

[Petrushka]

BH was in a position to dictate what he recorded. He has ascended to the heights of Karajan and others that were given a lot of latitude. I am not sure how you otherwise explain 9 different performances of Bruckner 7 in the catalog. Perhaps in his younger days he had to kow tow record executives but even then he showed a fierce streak of independence. Note the recordings of the Beethoven and Brahms VCs that he made with Herman Krebbers, the Concertgebouw Concert Master. I remember reading an interview with Haitink decades ago where he stated that he had to fight with record company executives, who argued that there was no market for Standard Repetoire conducted by unknown Concert Masters. BH replied that he thought Krebbers deserved the shot and while he obviously had to struggle with the executives he must have won the battle because those releases happened. I would presume that his clout increased from those years on.
He must have clearly wished not to record Mozart, Sibelius, Rachmaninov, etc. That is ok, no one should have to perform music that just don't wish to perform, and I'm really not criticizing BH for having his priorities. It's just to bad for those of us who admired his work that his inclinations didnt run in certain directions

I'm not sure where you get nine different performances of the Bruckner 7 from. I make it seven:

Concertgebouw Orchestra (1966)
Concertgebouw Orchestra (1972) live recording in the RCO125 box
Concertgebouw Orchestra (1978)
Chicago SO (2007)
Netherlands Radio Philharmonic (2019) live recording
Vienna PO (2019) live recording
Berlin PO (2019) live recording - direct to disc LP

Of these the majority are live recordings, some of which were not originally intended for commercial release and Haitink's agreement would probably have been sought after the event and unlikely to have been 'dictated' by him in any way. The possible exception is the Chicago one but doubt it as the team there would have likely said:'We'd like to record this and issue on our Resound label' and a contract drawn up accordingly - not sure how it works. The three 2019 recordings are clearly of a commemorative nature and all worthy of release. The two studio recordings made with the Concertgebouw would obviously be made for issue, with the 1978 one being a clear remake which Haitink would have likely 'dictated'.

Can you please let me know of the two missing ones and I'll get them!

[jayne lee wilson]

Surely though Pet, if Haitink ever said "please don't release that one, I wasn't happy with it", no Record Company would have ignored his wishes?

Just a reminder at this point that there's very wide-ranging repertoire in the Live RCOA boxes (Q Disc etc) which I can't recall seeing on commercial recordings (if its there its rare), such as Ligeti, Lutosławski, Roussel, Honegger, Berg and so on...

Perhaps there is more to come!