Bernard Haitink (1929-2021)

[silvestrione]

Anyone who has read of Rattle's time in Berlin or at the CBSO will know that he was certainly not to be messed with in such a way, devising whole series of concerts or recordings because he felt compelled by the project, by his own passions and interests. Or famously refusing to record the Bartok MSPC because at the first session, the orchestral personnel had changed from the previous concerts...!

His remarkable debut in Berlin was the Mahler 6 - one of the all-time great performances (and recordings), and no-one told him to do that! It was a magnificent statement of intent....

Yes, but...when someone expressed some surprise that he'd recorded Carmina Burana, he explained it was part of some such arrangement (to get agreement on something he wanted).

[jayne lee wilson]

Yes, but...when someone expressed some surprise that he'd recorded Carmina Burana, he explained it was part of some such arrangement (to get agreement on something he wanted).

Gotta reference, link or a quote please?

As I said above re. Previn, bargaining is not uncommon.... but I'd still like to see what Rattle actually said....he must still have been committed to the piece personally, surely...?

If only as a Party-Piece....
It was of course a Live Recording from the New Year's Eve Concerts, 29-31/12/2004....somewhat of a pièce d'occasion...

[cloughie]

Gotta reference, link or a quote please?

As I said above re. Previn, bargaining is not uncommon.... but I'd still like to see what Rattle actually said....he must still have been committed to the piece personally, surely...?

If only as a Party-Piece....
It was of course a Live Recording from the New Year's Eve Concerts, 29-31/12/2004....somewhat of a pièce d'occasion...

I think Previn saw his EMI recording of Carmina Burana had commercial potential after the eventful prom performance. Then sgain he must have liked it as remade it with the VPO for DG.

[silvestrione]

Gotta reference, link or a quote please?

.

No, no, just a memory, which struck me at the time, source lost. Perhaps these posts should be peer-reviewed before posting...

[Ein Heldenleben]

Gotta reference, link or a quote please?

As I said above re. Previn, bargaining is not uncommon.... but I'd still like to see what Rattle actually said....he must still have been committed to the piece personally, surely...?

If only as a Party-Piece....
It was of course a Live Recording from the New Year's Eve Concerts, 29-31/12/2004....somewhat of a pièce d'occasion...

He must have enjoyed it . He’s smiling on the cover (sort of) or is he just a consummate pro?

[Maclintick]

6833033

https://www.discogs.com/release/7142717-Bernard-Haitink-Concertgebouw-Orchestra-Bernard-Haitink-Conducting-The-Concertgebouw-Orchestra-Amste

Was this an earlyish Haitink purchase for many hereabouts?

No, my first encounter with BH was my Mum's played-to-death vinyl...



The Philips Mahler 5 & 9 sets gobbled up pocket-money, but it wasn't until the late 70s that I encountered BH live, first with the LPO & then the CO at the Proms -- in those days the Concertgebouw had no royal imprimatur, but were obviously none the worse for it, Bruckner 5/Mozart 40 in 1980, & the incandescent 1983 concerts mentioned by Pet (Shostakovich 8 & Bruckner 9), all of which I attended. Incidentally, BS-P, I would respectfully demur from the opinion of the writer in De Volksrant, who claimed that BH had put the Concertgebouw "on the international map". Er, what about Mengelberg, Mahler, Walter, Monteux, Jochum & Van Beinum -- all added lustre to the CO's reputation long before BH's arrival.

The BH/Peter Hall Glyndebourne years -- Figaro, Magic Flute, Don Giovanni with Tom Allen in his pomp, Britten MND & Albert Herring. Wonderful, plus the ROH Ring, Meistersinger, Don Carlos,& the 2 Bruckner 7s I was lucky enough to attend (DSK 2004 & VPO 2019) Thanks, BH, for all these & more

[cloughie]

H6

No, my first encounter with BH was my Mum's played-to-death vinyl...



The Philips Mahler 5 & 9 sets gobbled up pocket-money, but it wasn't until the late 70s that I encountered BH live, first with the LPO & then the CO at the Proms -- in those days the Concertgebouw had no royal imprimatur, but were obviously none the worse for it, Bruckner 5/Mozart 40 in 1980, & the incandescent 1983 concerts mentioned by Pet (Shostakovich 8 & Bruckner 9), all of which I attended. Incidentally, BS-P, I would respectfully demur from the opinion of the writer in De Volksrant, who claimed that BH had put the Concertgebouw "on the international map". Er, what about Mengelberg, Mahler, Walter, Monteux, Jochum & Van Beinum -- all added lustre to the CO's reputation long before BH's arrival.

The BH/Peter Hall Glyndebourne years -- Figaro, Magic Flute, Don Giovanni with Tom Allen in his pomp, Britten MND & Albert Herring. Wonderful, plus the ROH Ring, Meistersinger, Don Carlos,& the 2 Bruckner 7s I was lucky enough to attend (DSK 2004 & VPO 2019) Thanks, BH, for all these & more

Indeed Jochum was the young Haitink’s minder before he took on the CAO on his own. Interesting your mention and photo of the Rosamunde - the recording which was plundered for the ‘sampler’ I mentioned!

[richardfinegold]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...uctors_(music)

An interesting observation which appears true, although van Beinum did a little - his En Saga and Tapiola was good and maybe he may have recorded some symphonies had Collins not been on the Decca roster! He also did Finlandia and Valse Triste on Philips!

The wiki list of Dutch composers is interesting though and I don’t that Koopman and Leonhart are Sibelians but also I didn’t realise that Andre Rieu was Dutch - but I don’t expect his Kullervo anytime soon but maybe he’d have a bash at Finlandia!

It would be something if Rieu interrupted one of his Concerts to play the Sibelius VC, now wouldn’t it? The thought of it puts my mind in the mode of hearing Jeff Beck interrupt one of his concerts with his group that featured Rod Stewart as lead singer to do a half hour rendition of “Foggy Mountain Breakdown “.
The discussion about the lack of appreciation of Scandinavian Music by Dutch performers in general—not just BH—is interesting. To me it seems that Scandinavian composers have been best appreciated by British Musicians. Perhaps the Netherlands were never invaded by the Vikings? I’ll have to read up on that. No, that would explain it, because the French have never been good at it either, although Zion Francescatti did play a hell of a Sibelius VC with Bernstein

[jayne lee wilson]

It would be something if Rieu interrupted one of his Concerts to play the Sibelius VC, now wouldn’t it? The thought of it puts my mind in the mode of hearing Jeff Beck interrupt one of his concerts with his group that featured Rod Stewart as lead singer to do a half hour rendition of “Foggy Mountain Breakdown “.
The discussion about the lack of appreciation of Scandinavian Music by Dutch performers in general—not just BH—is interesting. To me it seems that Scandinavian composers have been best appreciated by British Musicians. Perhaps the Netherlands were never invaded by the Vikings? I’ll have to read up on that. No, that would explain it, because the French have never been good at it either, although Zion Francescatti did play a hell of a Sibelius VC with Bernstein

The French in Sibelius? Just need the right guidance.....

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/sibelius-complete-symphonies-orchestre-de-paris-paavo-jarvi/hzmb2a0vs3tca

[cloughie]

It would be something if Rieu interrupted one of his Concerts to play the Sibelius VC, now wouldn’t it? The thought of it puts my mind in the mode of hearing Jeff Beck interrupt one of his concerts with his group that featured Rod Stewart as lead singer to do a half hour rendition of “Foggy Mountain Breakdown “.
The discussion about the lack of appreciation of Scandinavian Music by Dutch performers in general—not just BH—is interesting. To me it seems that Scandinavian composers have been best appreciated by British Musicians. Perhaps the Netherlands were never invaded by the Vikings? I’ll have to read up on that. No, that would explain it, because the French have never been good at it either, although Zion Francescatti did play a hell of a Sibelius VC with Bernstein

I’m not sure of the logic regarding Viking invasion - I don’t think Rozhdestvensky’s excellent Symphony set was linked to them holding sway in Russia for 4 centuries up to the 1300s but who knows?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think the strength of Finnish conductors in Sibelius ( and indeed the entire orchestral repertoire ) has a lot to do with their outstanding educational system , their outstanding musical education system and the factoid (?) that they have more orchestras per head of population than any other country. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Vikings.

To back up Jayne’s point the Orchestre de Paris did an outstanding Mahler 5 with Klaus Mäkelä conducting on Mondays R3 in concert .I bet he’s a dab hand at Sibelius.

[edashtav]

I think the strength of Finnish conductors in Sibelius ( and indeed the entire orchestral repertoire ) has a lot to do with their outstanding educational system , their outstanding musical education system and the factoid (?) that they have more orchestras per head of population than any other country. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Vikings.

To back up Jayne’s point the Orchestre de Paris did an outstanding Mahler 5 with Klaus Mäkelä conducting on Mondays R3 in concert .I bet he’s a dab hand at Sibelius.

According to his agent, Harrison Parrott, you’re spot on:

“An exclusive Decca Classics Artist, Klaus Mäkelä has recorded the complete Sibelius Symphony cycle with the Oslo Philharmonic as his first project for the label, to be released in 2022.”

The last word?
Perhaps, there will be multiple Sibelian cycles to experience?
Given that the lad is a cellist, maybe he’ll arrange the sole Sibelius Concerto for his instrument.

[Ein Heldenleben]

According to his agent, Harrison Parrott, you’re spot on:

“An exclusive Decca Classics Artist, Klaus Mäkelä has recorded the complete Sibelius Symphony cycle with the Oslo Philharmonic as his first project for the label, to be released in 2022.”

The last word?
Perhaps, there will be multiple Sibelian cycles to experience?
Given that the lad is a cellist, maybe he’ll arrange the sole Sibelius for his instrument.

Extraordinary- he’s only 25 and he’s done a complete Sibelius cycle . One to watch…

[EnemyoftheStoat]

I think the strength of Finnish conductors in Sibelius ... has nothing whatsoever to do with Vikings.

Exactly, as the Vikings were Scandinavian, and the (ethnic) Finns are not.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Exactly, as the Vikings were Scandinavian, and the (ethnic) Finns are not.

Yes isn’t their language tied up in some way with Hungarian ?