Suzuki method

[ardcarp]

ABRSM grades have definitely not dumbed down

I absolutely agree. It's one thing I often quote to people who mutter (probably quite rightly) about the dumbing down and grade inflation of GCSEs.

BTW one of my daughters teaches A-level music (to ludicrously large classes) at a sixth-form college. The Music GCSEs that they arrive with are in no way a preparation for A-level, so she is more or less starting the course from scratch. The way things are at the moment, they have to get from nowhere to Bach Chorales, Set Works, a gemeral History of Music, Composition and Performance in four terms. And having done it online in recent times....well I can't think how teachers do it.

[Ein Heldenleben]

In South London, parents want their children to be grade 5/6 by 11 for music scholarships at independent schools. Totally agree about the ABRSM and Trinity Guildhall too.

That’s very interesting hadn’t heard that . Is that also with a view to grade 8 by 13 ?
It’s ridiculous really . Only a tiny percentage will ever become professionals. Let them express themselves and find out what they want to be ….

[Ein Heldenleben]

I absolutely agree. It's one thing I often quote to people who mutter (probably quite rightly) about the dumbing down and grade inflation of GCSEs.

BTW one of my daughters teaches A-level music (to ludicrously large classes) at a sixth-form college. The Music GCSEs that they arrive with are in no way a preparation for A-level, so she is more or less starting the course from scratch. The way things are at the moment, they have to get from nowhere to Bach Chorales, Set Works, a gemeral History of Music, Composition and Performance in four terms. And having done it online in recent times....well I can't think how teachers do it.

I’ve heard there are some A level boards where you don’t even do Bach Chorales at A level ! I did O level music in the 70’s (University Of London board) and had to complete what 16 plus bars of a chorale with a modulation . At Uni the music students then were completing bar after bar of Palestrina …

[Dave2002]

Money may well be part of it - particularly after the strain of Covid on budgets. But don't let it be another Covid front for negative outcomes. Head teachers are under threat if they don't get their SATs and GCSE/A Level etc results and place in the tables. It certainly only wasn't about money prior to the pandemic - it was about timetables and the choice of becoming a grade/exam/ university entrance factory in preference. Concerts, instrumental teaching - annual visit to a concert - seen as a diversion from what is important. (We have Gove and his Special Advisor in the Dept for Education to thank for creating that environment...)

The situation was bad in some areas before Covid. There are many factors, but if funds are so tight that a school can't afford to retain a music teacher, then there isn't much hope for encouraging students to appreciate or study music. I'm not suggesting that the decision to "let teachers go" is always wrong - but under the circumstances it might be the only sensible option.

[mikealdren]

That’s very interesting hadn’t heard that . Is that also with a view to grade 8 by 13 ?
It’s ridiculous really . Only a tiny percentage will ever become professionals. Let them express themselves and find out what they want to be ….

I completely agree but music is still flourishing in many private schools and they offer substantial reductions in fees for music scholars as they do for kids with sporting skills and, of course, talented academics

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

One thing though ABRSM grades have definitely not dumbed down . 10 years ago I met a University music student who’d had to learn the Moonlight for Grade 8 piano . That last movement - absolute ‘mare - octave trills on the fourth and fifth finger , horrible non standard scale passages …you name it. Opus 14 no 1 - now there’s a reasonable ask.

Yes and no. There has been some significant dumbing down in the difficulty of pieces in piano exams. I did Grade 1 in 1960, and the first piece in list B later turned up as a Grade 3 piece. The Mozart Sonata movement I did for Grade 6 recently appeared on the Grade 8 list.
On the other hand, the reverse has happened with scales and arpeggios, which have increased in number and complexity on most instruments.

Incidentally, I did Grade 8 piano in that “Moonlight” year (1967) but opted for the complete Mozart A minor sonata K310, but in more recent syllabuses, only the first movement has been required.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes and no. There has been some significant dumbing down in the difficulty of pieces in piano exams. I did Grade 1 in 1960, and the first piece in list B later turned up as a Grade 3 piece. The Mozart Sonata movement I did for Grade 6 recently appeared on the Grade 8 list.
On the other hand, the reverse has happened with scales and arpeggios, which have increased in number and complexity on most instruments.

Incidentally, I did Grade 8 piano in that “Moonlight” year (1967) but opted for the complete Mozart A minor sonata K310, but in more recent syllabuses, only the first movement has been required.

I wonder whether they’ve made the early grades easier . I just don’t know . The second “Moonlight “ year must have been in the noughties as the performer I heard was a College organ scholar who’d also done it for Grade 8 .I learnt the A minor at about 17 . The first movement though it has those tricky left hand passages in the left hand is not as demanding as the final movt Moonlight is it? It’s an incredibly satisfying work to play don’t you think? That terrific development with those unbearably tense clashing harmonies right hand over the left hand playing a sort of Mozartian boogie-woogie . What a piece!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wonder whether they’ve made the early grades easier . I just don’t know .

As far as the piano pieces are concerned, I think they've become easier at all grades. The old Grade 8 standard has been supplanted by "higher" qualifications, such as the Advanced Certificate and the ARSM diploma. Perhaps a cynical attempt to make money?

[ardcarp]

Yes and no. There has been some significant dumbing down in the difficulty of pieces in piano exams. I did Grade 1 in 1960, and the first piece in list B later turned up as a Grade 3 piece. The Mozart Sonata movement I did for Grade 6 recently appeared on the Grade 8 list.

As I'm completely out of the loop these days, I can't comment, BUT of course an examiner will be aware of the Grade he/she is assessing. It's quite possible for the same piece to appear in Gd 4 and Gd 6 (for instance) but he/she will be expecting a more technically accomplished and more musical performance for a Gd 6 exam.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As I'm completely out of the loop these days, I can't comment, BUT of course an examiner will be aware of the Grade he/she is assessing. It's quite possible for the same piece to appear in Gd 4 and Gd 6 (for instance) but he/she will be expecting a more technically accomplished and more musical performance for a Gd 6 exam.

This of course is what happens in ABRSM singing exams. Candidates are required to sing any folk song. The candidate could choose the same song for every grade, but the examiner has to make an assessment based on the level of the exam. I think it’s a strange arrangement, as it’s there as a substitute for scales & arpeggios. I think some kind of scales/arpeggio test should be part of a singing exam.

[Ein Heldenleben]

As far as the piano pieces are concerned, I think they've become easier at all grades. The old Grade 8 standard has been supplanted by "higher" qualifications, such as the Advanced Certificate and the ARSM diploma. Perhaps a cynical attempt to make money?

10 years on one of the ABRSM grade 8 pieces this year is again sBeethoven Op 14 No.1 - first movement . Not hugely technically difficult but a big interpretative challenge …
I did notice you only have to prepare scales in 4 keys . I seem to remember years back they could ask for any key…

[ardcarp]

I think some kind of scales/arpeggio test should be part of a singing exam.

O gawd no. Think of those poor old examiners.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This of course is what happens in ABRSM singing exams. Candidates are required to sing any folk song. The candidate could choose the same song for every grade, but the examiner has to make an assessment based on the level of the exam. I think it’s a strange arrangement, as it’s there as a substitute for scales & arpeggios. I think some kind of scales/arpeggio test should be part of a singing exam.

I think singing should be part of every instrumental exam . Even if it’s just being asked to sing one or two of themes (where possible ) of the work you are about to play …

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

O gawd no. Think of those poor old examiners.

I’m only thinking of those sopranos in the choir I’m in, dragging the whole ensemble progressively flatter. Thinking about intervals via scales could be extremely beneficial.

[Dave2002]

I’m only thinking of those sopranos in the choir I’m in, dragging the whole ensemble progressively flatter. Thinking about intervals via scales could be extremely beneficial.

Maybe you should all opt to sing at a lower pitch? Historically informed, perhaps!

Are these unfortunates unable to sing well at the top of their range, or is it "merely" a problem with their perception? Would a bit of additional vocal training help?

I'm not over fond of singing myself, but I do believe that singing can make a very significant difference to how some people react and perform music. So yes - asking instrumentalists to sing is not a bad idea, but perhaps in order to make that work they should also be expected to undertake a modicum of voice training alongside their instrument studies.

I'm not sure if there has been a significant tradition of singing in the UK during the last century or so - but I was stunned by the enthusiasm and ability of relatively ordinary people in Sweden. Maybe things have changed in the last decade or so, but it used to be fairly common to hear spontaneous singing in restaurants - something which I've not heard in the UK really ever. Maybe the closest to that would be singing (probably by men) in pubs in parts of Cornwall - think Fisherman's Friends. There may be other countries where singing is a common pastime - Italy perhaps - though whistling is also a feature there.