Suzuki method

[kernelbogey]

My grandaughter, six years old, gives indications of having a good ear. (She recently surprised her Dad by humming very accurately a tune she could have heard only a few times.) I'd like to explore the possibility of her trying out one or more instruments - whether wind or strings.

I know little of the Suzuki method (and am not a trained musician) but there appear to be plenty of teachers of the method in North London, where she lives with her parents.

I'd appreciate any general comments on thread - or PM me.

Thanks -

kb

[oddoneout]

There are pros and cons

https://takelessons.com/blog/suzuki-violin-method-pros-cons-z08

but I think that as important, possibly more so, is whether the child already has an interest in a particular instrument, which could then be the starting point - although some compromise might be necessary if there is a mismatch between the child's size and the instrument of choice! A family member fell in love with the double bass at a concert aged about 8, wouldn't consider starting on the more manageable cello and had to wait until size and an instrument came together at secondary school.
If not, then one of the usual suspects can be considered. Whatever the method/instrument the child must feel comfortable with the teacher - no good having a highly recommended tutor if the child can't stand her/him.

[pastoralguy]

May I suggest she starts with the piano? It’s the basis of all musical education and helps enormously with all aspects of music making. Alas, I never did learn the piano mainly due to financial restraints and it’s been a huge disadvantage.

[rauschwerk]

Two of my children had Suzuki violin tuition, one from 4 years of age. The ear-before-reading principle has always seemed logical to me, as long as the music reading is properly done in due course. It's a good deal more time-consuming for parents than traditional tuition, what with attendance at lessons and collaboration with practice sessions. One reward for the kids was the end of term playtogethers, when players of all abilities would join in with beginners' tunes as well as playing their more advanced repertoire.

I seriously considered training as a Suzuki piano teacher, but in the end was not persuaded that my instrument lent itself to Suzuki tuition as well as strings or flute.

[Dave2002]

Difficult one to answer. For instruments - recorders are quite easy - though can be a pain on the ears of anyone around. Piano or electronic keyboard might work. Some other instruments are too big or difficult for young children - though that's not to say that they can't work. Another option is to try singing - no instrument required - but a good teacher might help. I think that gives some people a terrific advantage, particularly if combined with ear training.

Really the problem as I see it is that just because someone is good at something they might not really enjoy it, or they may not enjoy the attempts of adults to shoe horn them into becoming musical. Probably not a good idea to buy an expensive instrument, or set up a series of lessons unless the child is really keen to do that.

To a certain extent I agree with PG about the piano, though with hindsight I wish I'd learnt the violin, and maybe even a guitar!
Percussion instruments would perhaps be a step too far (loud!) - and some are likely very expensive. Brass probably doesn't work for very young children. Some schools seem to have moved away from keyboards to ukeleles!

Young children seem to like fun things, and can switch from one area of interest to another almost overnight, so I'd warn against trying to force things too hard, or buying expensive instruments unless real enthusiasm and commitment is evident.

[mikealdren]

Some instruments can be picked up later (brass for example) but some like the violin really benefit from starting fairly early. I started with the piano and recorder but didn't take to either. At 9 (a bit late), I was offered violin lessons and immediately took to it. Does your granddaughter have a preference for a particular instrument?

Suzuki encourages ear training but any good teacher does that. However pupils often have trouble reading music later, conventional teaching drip feeds reading music alongside playing. For the violin, I would recommend finding a good inspiring teacher, Suzuki or not.

[rauschwerk]

lSuzuki encourages ear training but any good teacher does that. However pupils often have trouble reading music later, conventional teaching drip feeds reading music alongside playing.

If that's the case, I can only say that reading has not been properly taught. Suzuki pupils learn repertoire by daily listening, at least in the early stages. That's very different from conventional methods of ear training.

[kernelbogey]

Thanks, all: much to digest.

I'm currently on very strong medication for a week, so feeling totally c**p atm. Will mull responses, read links etc. Many thanks....

Personal postscript: I was 'sent' to piano lessons aged c9 (I've repressed the detail ) with a *terrible* teacher (as I now as an adult realise) - at the time I was just frightened. He was also abusive. I had stopped playing by 11 of so. (Until recently I could play from memory a page and half of The Harry Lime theme which somehow lived in muscle memory for 40+ years: the teacher had nothing to do with my learning that...!)

It's a wonder I managed to come to love classical music through records and my brother's intervention.

I won't be forcing anything on my granddaughter!

[kernelbogey]

May I suggest she starts with the piano? It’s the basis of all musical education and helps enormously with all aspects of music making. Alas, I never did learn the piano mainly due to financial restraints and it’s been a huge disadvantage.

This would be a problem in their flat - no space for one - but an electronic keyboard might work...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

May I suggest she starts with the piano? It’s the basis of all musical education and helps enormously with all aspects of music making. Alas, I never did learn the piano mainly due to financial restraints and it’s been a huge disadvantage.

I agree. Any other instrument can make the pupil clef-skewed. There must be many millions around the world who believe the bass clef is far more difficult than the treble, but a well taught pianist can switch easily to the music of most other instruments. (Before the guns emerge, I did say “most”.)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This would be a problem in their flat - no space for one - but an electronic keyboard might work...

If you go down this road, make sure the keyboard has weighted keys like a real piano.

[Dave2002]

I won't be forcing anything on my granddaughter!

That is quite important I think - unless she really shows interest. What happens at school?

Some moderately decent keyboards are fun, and quite cheap. Most don't work as pianos - not having proper weighted keyboards - but that might not matter for young learners.

Computers can also double up as instruments by attaching a small keyboard - though that's an approach usually adopted by some music technology specialists.

Attach a small midi computer to a keyboard and with suitable software you have an instrument. Not really good for playing, but can work for creating music and composition. As space is limited other options such as a piano aren't going to work.

I note the comments about picking up the violin later being harder, though I do know (indirectly) one very good player who was largely self taught and didn't learn till she was at least ten.
A very unusual person.

Hope you feel better soon.

[oddoneout]

It would be a shame if the comments about "needing" to learn violin early were to discourage from taking it up later. I'm not convinced it is that cut and dried (from personal experience and observation) unless exceptional talent has already shown itself and a professional/solo career has been determined on. If that is not the case then the focus can be on experiencing the pleasure to be had from playing for its own sake, doing grades if inclined.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That is quite important I think - unless she really shows interest. What happens at school?

Some moderately decent keyboards are fun, and quite cheap. Most don't work as pianos - not having proper weighted keyboards - but that might not matter for young learners.

That is heresy of the highest order.

I have played the piano since I was 7 or 8 years old, and with a lifetime's experience, I can make a reasonable fist of making most pianos sound reasonable, because I can compensate for deficiencies. A young beginner cannot. If you want a child to fail, buy an instrument advertised as "suitable for beginners", for that apparently innocuous phrase generally means "clapped out and unsuitable for beginners". A beginner needs a decent well-made instrument in good condition. As far as electronic keyboards are concerned, that also means, weighted keys - not sprung ones. The feel of the instrument needs to be understood from day 1. There are decent examples available for under £500.

[Ein Heldenleben]

That is heresy of the highest order.

I have played the piano since I was 7 or 8 years old, and with a lifetime's experience, I can make a reasonable fist of making most pianos sound reasonable, because I can compensate for deficiencies. A young beginner cannot. If you want a child to fail, buy an instrument advertised as "suitable for beginners", for that apparently innocuous phrase generally means "clapped out and unsuitable for beginners". A beginner needs a decent well-made instrument in good condition. As far as electronic keyboards are concerned, that also means, weighted keys - not sprung ones. The feel of the instrument needs to be understood from day 1. There are decent examples available for under £500.

Absolutely right .You can also get a piano tuner to adjust the key weight so that smaller hands don’t have to make quite as much effort to depress the keys.Have to say I’m not sure how good a piano you’ll get for £500 though. I would have thought £1000 the bare minimum. There are some good rental deals around where the shop will knock quite a bit off the price after a few months rental .