'To Hell with the young'

[gradus]

The thread title comes from a short Dave Hurwitz piece (link below)in which he argues that concert promoters, broadcasters and record companies are wasting their time trying to promote classical music to the young when it is and always will be an essentially middle-aged and elderly interest. Could he be right? There's no shortage of middle-aged and elderly people with the time and resources to become interested in classical music, yet one rarely if ever hears of initiatives aimed at them in terms of outreach and marketing. Is a trick being missed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfgPKUrjXGI

[jayne lee wilson]

To Hell with David bloody Hurwitz!

Not to deny he has some knowledge of music and recordings, but he ruins it with his narrow critical attitudes, his smug, self-serving verbal showing-off as he dismisses Roth or Currentzis or Venzago or whatever else... leaving his comfort zone seems to terrify him. So he laughs at those performers that drag him out of it.

He can't stand the new, so no wonder he can't stand the young either... some of the best 2021 Proms were planned and performed by inspiring young players and composers...they helped to make it a wonderful season.

I know a few "middle-aged and elderly" neighbours who don't listen to Classical Repertoire & hardly know it beyond a few famous names; if I talk about it they look blank and even less likely to take such an interest...their musical interests might run from Led Zep to Britpop, maybe with Beyoncé or Britney thrown in...
So why this "always will be an essentially middle-aged and elderly interest" sounds like a doctrine of despair to me...

[french frank]

There's no shortage of middle-aged and elderly people with the time and resources to become interested in classical music, yet one rarely if ever hears of initiatives aimed at them in terms of outreach and marketing.

It was always the case that Radio 3 was aiming for the "replenisher" audience. According to an old Times article: "The demographic group was invented by the BBC’s internal research team, and its members are defined as “culturally engaged” 35 to 54-year-olds."

Not sure that the current management's offerings have much to do with classical music. So much of what they are offering now is either not classical at all, or peripheral (like Elizabeth Alker brought in as a presenter).

[kernelbogey]

It was always the case that Radio 3 was aiming for the "replenisher" audience...[i.e.] “culturally engaged” 35 to 54-year-olds."

it is and always will be an essentially middle-aged and elderly interest

If these statements are true, how to explain my own listening to this station (possibly under earlier names) between the ages 15-19? I do not claim personal exceptionalism here , but I seriously wonder whether younger people can be so ruthlessly (and thoughtlessly) sidelined.

Or has the world changed that much in 60 years?

[french frank]

Or has the world changed that much in 60 years?

I suspect it has

[Bryn]

If these statements are true, how to explain my own listening to this station (possibly under earlier names) between the ages 15-19? I do not claim personal exceptionalism here , but I seriously wonder whether younger people can be so ruthlessly (and thoughtlessly) sidelined.

Or has the world changed that much in 60 years?

Bit of a late starter with Radio 3 or, perhaps, the Third Programme, eh?

[Braunschlag]

The thread title comes from a short Dave Hurwitz piece (link below)in which he argues that concert promoters, broadcasters and record companies are wasting their time trying to promote classical music to the young when it is and always will be an essentially middle-aged and elderly interest. Could he be right? There's no shortage of middle-aged and elderly people with the time and resources to become interested in classical music, yet one rarely if ever hears of initiatives aimed at them in terms of outreach and marketing. Is a trick being missed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfgPKUrjXGI

I think he is right but it’s the usual Hurwitz spiel which you love or loathe (I’ve said before that some of his YT videos are interesting but he does love his own voice a bit too much).
Some years ago I was asked to become a committee member of our local music society. Very much in the old subscription model (which does have its advantages of course). I was then teaching full time at a local grammar school and I was very much interested in trying to lower the age profile. We tried. Free tickets, invitations, the usual things.
At that time Arthur Butterworth was also on the committee (I knew him from my time at Huddersfield) and he calmly informed me that none of it would work, it really was something for the older age group and they’d tried everything in the past and were still game to continue as such - but it was a losing battle.
I don’t think for a moment that he was being negative, it’s how it is.
The one thing the society did do was to have an annual children’s concert, given by one of the ensembles booked (Red Priest went down brilliantly). Did it result in an increase in younger concert- goers? No, but that wasn’t the aim. It was aimed at primary school children and hopefully gave them a taste of the world of professional performers and ‘classical’ music.
I might also say that those amongst us who collected classical LPs and listened avidly to Radio three in our teens are very much a minority and possibly rather strange!

[AuntDaisy]

To Hell with David bloody Hurwitz!

Thanks jayne lee wilson, that had me in stitches.
BTW, what did you think of his Bruckner Symphony Cycles video?

[french frank]

I might also say that those amongst us who collected classical LPs and listened avidly to Radio three in our teens are very much a minority and possibly rather strange!

True, and strange, in my experience. When I left home in my 20s I didn't have a radio for years and didn't listen to much music (and only classical); finally an exasperated friend - a rabid Radio 4/World Service listener - gave me a Sony cube radio (as below, about 4 inches, cubed). Via Radio 4 I gravitated to Radio 3 where I perched and stayed. But I was certainly in my 30s before I discovered it and listened to it on my Sony Cube. It appealed then. I doubt it would appeal now if I were the same age. But it's quite possible I too am "rather strange" - certainly as Radio 3 listeners go.

[AuntDaisy]

True, and strange, in my experience. When I left home in my 20s I didn't have a radio for years and didn't listen to much music (and only classical); finally an exasperated friend - a rabid Radio 4/World Service listener - gave me a Sony cube radio (as below, about 4 inches, cubed). Via Radio 4 I gravitated to Radio 3 where I perched and stayed. But I was certainly in my 30s before I discovered it and listened to it on my Sony Cube. It appealed then. I doubt it would appeal now if I were the same age. But it's quite possible I too am "rather strange" - certainly as Radio 3 listeners go.

Do you still have it?

I love the "This Cube is not for Squares" advert.

[kernelbogey]

I suspect it has

Mais - où sont les neiges d'antan?

[Pianoman]

I think he is right but it’s the usual Hurwitz spiel which you love or loathe (I’ve said before that some of his YT videos are interesting but he does love his own voice a bit too much).
Some years ago I was asked to become a committee member of our local music society. Very much in the old subscription model (which does have its advantages of course). I was then teaching full time at a local grammar school and I was very much interested in trying to lower the age profile. We tried. Free tickets, invitations, the usual things.
At that time Arthur Butterworth was also on the committee (I knew him from my time at Huddersfield) and he calmly informed me that none of it would work, it really was something for the older age group and they’d tried everything in the past and were still game to continue as such - but it was a losing battle.
I don’t think for a moment that he was being negative, it’s how it is.
The one thing the society did do was to have an annual children’s concert, given by one of the ensembles booked (Red Priest went down brilliantly). Did it result in an increase in younger concert- goers? No, but that wasn’t the aim. It was aimed at primary school children and hopefully gave them a taste of the world of professional performers and ‘classical’ music.
I might also say that those amongst us who collected classical LPs and listened avidly to Radio three in our teens are very much a minority and possibly rather strange!

Yep I have to agree - irritating as he can be a lot of those points are absolutely correct. Any concert audience or recorded music society will be ample proof, and I agree with him about the record companies tailoring the releases to those of us ‘matures’ who buy the damn product instead of pathetic marketing gimmicks and dumbing down.

[french frank]

Do you still have it?

I love the "This Cube is not for Squares" advert.

I don't, no. Who knew it would ever be a 'vintage'?

[kernelbogey]

I don't, no. Who knew it would ever be a 'vintage'?

Off topic, I know, but my son yesterday unearthed his 30-year-old Gameboy - still working!

[jayne lee wilson]

Thanks jayne lee wilson, that had me in stitches.
BTW, what did you think of his Bruckner Symphony Cycles video?

I haven't seen it and I'd best keep well away - my arrhythmias are bad enough already.....
Nearly 50 minutes of my precious brief time on Earth listening to DH on Bruckner? No Thanks...even if it might be bleakly hilarious....
Time better spent here........

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/bruckner-symphony-no-4-in-e-flat-major-wab-104-romantic-the-3-versions-bamberg-symphony-orchestra-jakub-hrusa/g36xcg9tif8ya