"Jurassic FM"

[MickyD]

The report I listened to, or was it on the BBC television News Channel, rather than Radio 4, asserted that at the time of launch, there was no ITV, just ITA but that ITV took over some time after the initial launch. It would not be unknown for them to have got something wrong. The first out of the gate appears to have been Associated-Television.

Coincidentally, commercial television opened up on this very day in 1955. Yes, ATV was part of it, operating a franchise in the Midlands from Monday to Friday, then in London on the weekends. (The reason why ATV had studios in London an Birmingham). It was all terribly complicated to begin with...Granada had the franchise for the north from Monday to Friday, then ABC took over on the weekends both there and in the Midlands! Rediffusion operated in London during the week. All anorak stuff, sorry to bore you with it. Thankfully it all settled down more tidily by the end of the sixties, when the fifteen different programme companies collectively made up ITV.
Many like me lament the watering down of regional ITV, it was all much more fun then, especially with all the different logos.

[kernelbogey]

Letters in the Guardian today from Meirion Bowen and others.

[french frank]

Letters in the Guardian today from Meirion Bowen and others.

Back into the fray I have to say, I think Meirion Bowen is talking through his hat: "Their division of audiences for music into those who listen only to so-called classical and others only to jazz, rock and pop, is about 75 years out of date. "

Looking through RAJAR's list of stations I can see Planet Rock, Rock FM, Absolute Classic Rock, Jazz FM (has Smooth Jazz gone to the wall, now just Smooth FM?), plus close on 400 stations (some regional variants of the same brand, many BBC).

How many of those include classical music? How many include jazz? They play to a specific audience - it's what the vast majority of stations do, Radio 3 being an "honourable" exception. CFM does what it says on the tin ("Classic FM is the home of classical music in the UK, with a welcoming touch that makes the genre accessible and relevant to all, nationally."). I don't see why it should be bullied into doing anything else.

[oddoneout]

Back into the fray I have to say, I think Meirion Bowen is talking through his hat: "Their division of audiences for music into those who listen only to so-called classical and others only to jazz, rock and pop, is about 75 years out of date. "

Looking through RAJAR's list of stations I can see Planet Rock, Rock FM, Absolute Classic Rock, Jazz FM (has Smooth Jazz gone to the wall, now just Smooth FM?), plus close on 400 stations (some regional variants of the same brand, many BBC).

How many of those include classical music? How many include jazz? They play to a specific audience - it's what the vast majority of stations do, Radio 3 being an "honourable" exception. CFM does what it says on the tin ("Classic FM is the home of classical music in the UK, with a welcoming touch that makes the genre accessible and relevant to all, nationally."). I don't see why it should be bullied into doing anything else.

I think what he says makes sense as it stands and in the context of the NK strop. If CFM's perception is that there is no overlap between an audience that likes "classical" and one that likes Jimi Hendrix then they (and other broadcasters who share that opinion, for whatever reason ) won't support mixed programmes or output, whichever the starting point ie "classical" or other, especially if it might have an impact on audience derived revenue. As Meirion Bowen says, that division wasn't ever completely true, and I think is possibly even less so now . My feeling is that it tends to work largely(almost exclusively?) in one direction - classical to others - from experience over the years, but perhaps given the way access to music has changed in recent years that might alter a bit - but how would one know and in any case would it make any difference "any time soon" as they say, to similar incidents arising? Fortunately the likes of CFM are not the only providers of concerts and a less "segregated" approach to concert programming can be found around the country in various forms.
I had dealings with Mr Bowen in the late 70s and had rather assumed he had popped his clogs by now - perhaps he was younger than I thought at the time.

[french frank]

As Meirion Bowen says, that division wasn't ever completely true, and I think is possibly even less so now .

Maybe so, but it's a logical nonsense to think that a radio station which provides a mix of different kinds of music has one single audience. Radio 3 will have jazz listeners who listen to jazz only, world music fans who listen to world music only, 'unclassified' listeners who tune in for Elizabeth Alker's programme &c. Yes, some people will want to listen to all kinds, or some mix of different kinds of music. It doesn't mean to say there's no longer (and hasn't been for 75 years) a market for single genre stations which is what CFM has elected to be. NK has performed a jazz-only programme at the Proms (and on Radio 3) because that's the kind of thing they (Proms/R3) do: doesn't mean that all, or even many, Radio 3 listeners will want to hear it. But they can choose not to listen since there are plenty of other concerts. People have no choice if it's a single concert on one particular evening. Or a single R3 ('classical music') programme which mixes the genres.

[antongould]

“Hendrix is like Beethoven Vivaldi’s more Des O’Connor” …… well Nige it’s a point of view ……

[oddoneout]

“Hendrix is like Beethoven Vivaldi’s more Des O’Connor” …… well Nige it’s a point of view ……

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/sep/28/nigel-kennedy-classic-fm-fight-hendrix-beethoven-vivaldi-des-oconnor-duke-ellington

[french frank]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...duke-ellington

<sigh> Just one more topic to cause division and outrage

[LHC]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...duke-ellington

I suspect that the most salient point in that article is: "Nigel Kennedy’s memoir and three CD box set, both titled Uncensored, are released on 4 November".

[Ein Heldenleben]

<sigh> Just one more topic to cause division and outrage

I think the key question is whether Nigel’s exploration of Hendrix works musically . For me it doesn’t . He is an absolutely superb classical violinist , a compelling stage presence but I just don’t think he “inhabits” the rock idiom. I also think the same of his jazz playing - it’s ok but doesn’t quite do it for me . When you hear him with Stephane Grappelli - the jazz master just has so much more ease and swing to his playing . But maybe the Duke knew better . I don’t see how he could have filled Ray Nance’s shoes - his band nickname was “floor show” because he could do anything - dance ,sing , play the violin. Does any one know of a classical musician who can really play jazz or vice verse - Keith Emerson , Bill Evans , Previn , Dudley Moore are the ones that spring to mind…

[richardfinegold]

I think the key question is whether Nigel’s exploration of Hendrix works musically . For me it doesn’t . He is an absolutely superb classical violinist , a compelling stage presence but I just don’t think he “inhabits” the rock idiom. I also think the same of his jazz playing - it’s ok but doesn’t quite do it for me . When you hear him with Stephane Grappelli - the jazz master just has so much more ease and swing to his playing . But maybe the Duke knew better . I don’t see how he could have filled Ray Nance’s shoes - his band nickname was “floor show” because he could do anything - dance ,sing , play the violin. Does any one know of a classical musician who can really play jazz or vice verse - Keith Emerson , Bill Evans , Previn , Dudley Moore are the ones that spring to mind…

Wynton Marsalis?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

<sigh> Just one more topic to cause division and outrage

.

I’m no longer interested in an attention-seeking individual who behaves like a spoilt brat. There are many other violinists/musicians to fill the void he’s created for himself.

[french frank]

I suspect that the most salient point in that article is: "Nigel Kennedy’s memoir and three CD box set, both titled Uncensored, are released on 4 November".

Cynic!

[cloughie]

I think the key question is whether Nigel’s exploration of Hendrix works musically . For me it doesn’t . He is an absolutely superb classical violinist , a compelling stage presence but I just don’t think he “inhabits” the rock idiom. I also think the same of his jazz playing - it’s ok but doesn’t quite do it for me . When you hear him with Stephane Grappelli - the jazz master just has so much more ease and swing to his playing . But maybe the Duke knew better . I don’t see how he could have filled Ray Nance’s shoes - his band nickname was “floor show” because he could do anything - dance ,sing , play the violin. Does any one know of a classical musician who can really play jazz or vice verse - Keith Emerson , Bill Evans , Previn , Dudley Moore are the ones that spring to mind…

Gulda, Corea, Nina Simone, Roberta Flack, Jon Lord, Billy Joel, Keith Jarrett.

In addition there are a number of musicians who started classical training but moved on because they didn’t like the disciplines - Jack Bruce and Annie Lennox spring to mind.
Peter Skellern springs to mind as a classically trained musician who turned his skills to imaginative use of and arranging brass bands in pop and big band numbers.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Wynton Marsalis?

Yes of course the supreme example - the only one who really excels in both !