Mahan Esfahani's problem with....

[kernelbogey]

Handel today, and Mahler next Sunday.

Should be interesting...!

[Bryn]

Handel today, and Mahler next Sunday.

Should be interesting...!

Indeed, Esfahani's repeated problem with . . .

[kernelbogey]

Indeed, Esfahani's repeated problem with . . .

My principal memory of Esfahani is of a recital of the Goldberg Variations he gave in Bath about 4-5 years ago - for which I had a ticket but was obliged by illness to listen to at home on R3. There was a long broadcast introduction, most of it Esfahani explaining some of the musicology and technicalities of the piece; some of it a kind of dialogue with Tom Service who was nominally the presenter, doing his usual Tiggerish schtick. The whole experience was revelatory for me both about the Goldbergs and about the harpsichord. (On the whole, I may have had the better experience by being at home. )

I am not familiar with the controversies to which Bryn's post points. But I found this very interesting interview with him for the Observer by Rachel Cooke, which - for me - explains some of the personal background which might account for some of his eccentricities and forthright views.

[Mandryka]

Anyone heard his Bach Partitas?

[kernelbogey]

I found this programme fascinating. (I had not realised that it, and next Sunday's, had been broadcast previously - the BBC R3 website does not disclose this: why not? Someone at the BBC should go on the naughty step. ) Esfahani made a credible Aunt Sally of Handel with his five criticisms. Though perhaps beginning from some place of personal prejudice he reported doing extensive research for the programme - reading scores and listening to performances. I find him an intelligent and witty broadcaster. The charm of the programme came to a considerable degree from Sarah Connolly's well-argued defences of Handel against the five challenges, and Esfahani's volte face, in itself charming - and moving - at the end of the programme made for a satisfying conclusion to a spirited debate by two musicians.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I found this programme fascinating. (I had not realised that it, and next Sunday's, had been broadcast previously - the BBC R3 website does not disclose this: why not? Someone at the BBC should go on the naughty step. ) Esfahani made a credible Aunt Sally of Handel with his five criticisms. Though perhaps beginning from some place of personal prejudice he reported doing extensive research for the programme - reading scores and listening to performances. I find him an intelligent and witty broadcaster. The charm of the programme came to a considerable degree from Sarah Connolly's well-argued defences of Handel against the five challenges, and Esfahani's volte face, in itself charming - and moving - at the end of the programme made for a satisfying conclusion to a spirited debate by two musicians.

I too found the programme very enjoyable and quite informative, but couldn't help feeling that some of his charges against Handel were little more than a cockshy, targets set up to be quickly demolished. Did he really not know that the da capo form was a vehicle for virtuoso extemporised decoration in the last A section? And that his charge against Handel would see off most of baroque opera, and beyond Bach, a fair bit of Mozart too.Did he not know that his idol Bach borrowed hugely from other composers, e.g. Italian concerti for his organ works? That Bach isn't famous for his 'character' arias? I felt too that more could have been made of the way Handel is moving away from contrapuntal edifices towards greater reliance on melody and harmony. Thesis: Handel might have appreciated CPE Bach's music better than his father did - discuss.

[kernelbogey]

I too found the programme very enjoyable and quite informative, but couldn't help feeling that some of his charges against Handel were little more than a cockshy, targets set up to be quickly demolished. Did he really not know that the da capo form was a vehicle for virtuoso extemporised decoration in the last A section? And that his charge against Handel would see off most of baroque opera, and beyond Bach, a fair bit of Mozart too.Did he not know that his idol Bach borrowed hugely from other composers, e.g. Italian concerti for his organ works? That Bach isn't famous for his 'character' arias? I felt too that more could have been made of the way Handel is moving away from contrapuntal edifices towards greater reliance on melody and harmony. Thesis: Handel might have appreciated CPE Bach's music better than his father did - discuss.

Tee hee (as I suspect ME himself might respond to your post, LMP!) I agree with your counter-arguments, and thought too that some musical extracts were longer than required to make the point being illustrated - potentially leaving room for more discussion. I also wondered if Dame Sarah might have been - how to say this? - slightly miffed about the whole exercise.

There being, I believe, no parts for harpsichord in the works of Herr Gustav Mahler, I'm looking forward with bated breath to the second programme (or maybe there are even more?).

[Bryn]

I too found the programme very enjoyable and quite informative, but couldn't help feeling that some of his charges against Handel were little more than a cockshy, targets set up to be quickly demolished. Did he really not know that the da capo form was a vehicle for virtuoso extemporised decoration in the last A section? And that his charge against Handel would see off most of baroque opera, and beyond Bach, a fair bit of Mozart too.Did he not know that his idol Bach borrowed hugely from other composers, e.g. Italian concerti for his organ works? That Bach isn't famous for his 'character' arias? I felt too that more could have been made of the way Handel is moving away from contrapuntal edifices towards greater reliance on melody and harmony. Thesis: Handel might have appreciated CPE Bach's music better than his father did - discuss.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000qks9

Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the notification of the previous broadcast.

[kernelbogey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000qks9

Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the notification of the previous broadcast.

Thanks - I hadn't looked far enough.

Edit: LMP is innocent.

[oddoneout]

I too found the programme very enjoyable and quite informative, but couldn't help feeling that some of his charges against Handel were little more than a cockshy, targets set up to be quickly demolished. Did he really not know that the da capo form was a vehicle for virtuoso extemporised decoration in the last A section? And that his charge against Handel would see off most of baroque opera, and beyond Bach, a fair bit of Mozart too.Did he not know that his idol Bach borrowed hugely from other composers, e.g. Italian concerti for his organ works? That Bach isn't famous for his 'character' arias? I felt too that more could have been made of the way Handel is moving away from contrapuntal edifices towards greater reliance on melody and harmony. Thesis: Handel might have appreciated CPE Bach's music better than his father did - discuss.

I also enjoyed the programme (must have missed it first time around although I seem to remember seeing it on the schedules) but did wonder if it might have been intended to serve/appeal to more than just the core R3 audience, hence things like the da capo explanation?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Edit: LMP is innocent.

Well, on this occasion perhaps!

[ardcarp]

The problem with.....

....Mahler. Did anyone listen to Mahan Esfahani trying to explain why he doesn't 'get' Mahler? I found the discussion a bit, well, pointless! Surely everyone has his/her own personal passions and coolness towards composers and genres. I suppose they are worth discussing...maybe??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000qncz

[Petrushka]

What's the point of listening to anyone saying how much they dislike a certain composer? I'd much rather learn from someone's enthusiasms especially of music/literature I either didn't know or had idly written off. I'm surprised that Radio 3 thinks such personal opinions warrant air time.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What's the point of listening to anyone saying how much they dislike a certain composer? I'd much rather learn from someone's enthusiasms especially of music/literature I either didn't know or had idly written off. I'm surprised that Radio 3 thinks such personal opinions warrant air time.

There isn’t any point. It’s cheap programming. Also, I admit to being put off by the website’s “What’s not to love about Mahler?”

[french frank]

What's the point of listening to anyone saying how much they dislike a certain composer? I'd much rather learn from someone's enthusiasms especially of music/literature I either didn't know or had idly written off. I'm surprised that Radio 3 thinks such personal opinions warrant air time.

"Just to be clear, I'm not even close to being a reliable authority on any of this, particularly Mahler."

Thank you for telling me that right at the beginning, rather than letting me plough through right to the end of the first two minutes.

Just to be fair, it is "My problem with …" not "The problem with".