Carl Friedrich Abel (1723-1787) v W A Mozart (1756-1791)

[kernelbogey]

Mozart's reputation, though, isn't principally based on the majority of his work, which with the best will in the world doesn't rise that far above what many of his contemporaries were doing, but on a relatively few examples of music whose expressive complexity is unique, not just for its time but for any other, although you have to be in tune with it to hear it, it's something that's often taking place as it were "between" the notes rather than straightforwardly "in" them.

Brilliant post Richard - many thanks. It's a good response to my #27.... This also puts me in mind of the G minor Piano Quartet K478, which amazes me every time I hear its symphonic level of expression and complexity: no doubt there are many other examples outside the da Ponte operas.

[Barbirollians]

Brilliant post Richard - many thanks. It's a good response to my #27.... This also puts me in mind of the G minor Piano Quartet K478, which amazes me every time I hear its symphonic level of expression and complexity: no doubt there are many other examples outside the da Ponte operas.

I don’t agree for a moment with the suggestion that the majority of Mozart’s work - certainly from about 19 onwards does not rise above that of his contemporaries ! Only Haydn wrote work anywhere near as great from 1774-1791 .

The piano concertos from K271 onwards, the operas, the symphonies from 28 onwards, his extraordinary chamber music , the Sinfonia Concertante, the wind concertos , the Requiem and Masses, the concert arias , the horn and violin concertos even way above his contemporaries.

[jayne lee wilson]

For me there are more than enough "masterpieces" (though I acknowledge that can, in some contexts, be a problematically subjective term)...to justify Mozart's status as a very great, exceptionally great composer.

How many here spent time getting to know the "Haydn" or "Hofmeister/Prussian" late Quartets? Or all of the String Quintets, not just 515/6? Less familiar Wind Serenades (including the tragic-toned one, K388, adapted for String Quintet K406; the K407 Horn Quintet (not just the sublime K452); The Piano Concertos after No.9? Those for Violin or Violin/Viola K364? K457/475 Piano Works?

There a few such prolific composers who leave more than a few great works - ie those of exceptional melodic inspiration, formal innovation and inventiveness - as their legacy.
Noting that the K250 Serenade was probably his first truly mature, entirely personal achievement (though with a serious nod to the "Little G Minor" Symphony K183), I would simply suggest that Mozart left rather more than most.....

But I admit to my own subjective adoration of most of the works I have listed above; as I get older I find myself listening to more Mozart (and JS Bach too), among various more adventurous quests.....

There is something very profoundly special I find in their voices - I can find nowhere else....

[kernelbogey]

I don’t agree for a moment with the suggestion that the majority of Mozart’s work - certainly from about 19 onwards does not rise above that of his contemporaries ! Only Haydn wrote work anywhere near as great from 1774-1791....

I'm not sure - struggling with tiredness here - but perhaps what I was flagging up in the OP was that extra exposure to lesser names in recent years has narrowed the perceived reputational gap between WAM and contemporaries.... Abel is very good! CPE Bach is sensational.... More soon I hope.

(And agree with Jayne, btw.)

[kernelbogey]

I don’t agree for a moment with the suggestion that the majority of Mozart’s work - certainly from about 19 onwards does not rise above that of his contemporaries ! Only Haydn wrote work anywhere near as great from 1774-1791 .

The piano concertos from K271 onwards, the operas, the symphonies from 28 onwards, his extraordinary chamber music , the Sinfonia Concertante, the wind concertos , the Requiem and Masses, the concert arias , the horn and violin concertos even way above his contemporaries.

My dfficulty, such as it is for one not musically trained, is to understand the difference between the purely subjective response to Mozart's genius, and the ability to be able to say 'he is great because....'

[Piazolla]

There are countless really good composers that sound like Mozart, it was the style of the time. But somehow Mozart's works seems deeper, he had a remarkable ability to developed the maternal in unusual and inventive ways and the scoring, again so imaginative, clever and never routine. I listen of a lot of 18th century music and you can find works that come close to Mozart but they never surpass his greatest works.