Rhythm notation

[Dave2002]

Some people apparently don't like some notation.

I wonder if this is a particularly American thing - as taught in some music colleges there - or general.
"Rules" such as imaginary bar lines seem to feature.

I personally do not like ties much, so in the example shown here I might prefer the second bar in each line shown with the dotted notes, rather than the ties, but I wonder if this "rule" is generally followed.
Perhaps in 4/4 musicians who are used to reading music may find the ties easier, and there is an argument that it's easier for sight reading.

Perhaps it would be most appropriate to ask percussionists and drummers what they would like. My argument is that if the notation makes sense it's up to the performer to get the rhythm right, rather thn follow some conventions/rules about publishing notation - but maybe I'm wrong. What happens if the time signature is changed to something else - say 7/8 - I have seen scores with dotted bar lines put in, but don't most composers just expect performers to sort it out, either by practice or in rehearsal?

Publishing conventions which hold up - perhaps for valid reasons in 4/4 - may just not hold for music in other time signatures.

[Joseph K]

I personally do not like ties much, so in the example shown here I migh prefer the second bar in each line shown with the dotted notes, rather than the ties, but I wonder if this "rule" is generally followed.

I would prefer the ties, since that way you can see where the beats are. Some more pedantic-minded person might consider the bar with dotted notes not really correct for 4/4 - it looks to me more like a bar of 8/8.

[Roslynmuse]

I would prefer the ties, since that way you can see where the beats are. Some more pedantic-minded person might consider the bar with dotted notes not really correct for 4/4 - it looks to me more like a bar of 8/8.

Maybe only a millisecond difference in processing time, but it all adds up (!)

[Dave2002]

Maybe only a millisecond difference in processing time, but it all adds up (!)

Agreed, but human beings are sentient and can adapt.
I suspect that if you recognised the bars with the dotted notes and practised you could very quickly get at least at fast as using the ties.

To me a lot of music - with more instrument lines - often looks very cluttered with ties all over the place, but I understand that some musicians have been trained to read like that, and their perceptions have probably been reinforced by music publishers.

In tools like Sibelius there are ways of regrouping rhythm sequences - see https://youtu.be/CQ4oZwmli5E

[vinteuil]

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... Dave : something for you to get your teeth into -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-xTvfr3nJ8

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[Dave2002]

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... Dave : something for you to get your teeth into -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-xTvfr3nJ8

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Thanks for the reminder. Seen it already!

[Richard Barrett]

I understand that some musicians have been trained to read like that

The word you're looking for is "all". Music notation (like any written language) has its conventions, and anything that doesn't conform to them is going to waste time better spent on more interesting aspects of interpretation, unless for some reason the awkwardness of the notation is put there knowingly (as in some scores by Morton Feldman for example).

I don't think you need to be pedantic to regard the 2+3+3 bar as 8/8 - that's exactly what it is!

[Dave2002]

The word you're looking for is "all". Music notation (like any written language) has its conventions, and anything that doesn't conform to them is going to waste time better spent on more interesting aspects of interpretation, unless for some reason the awkwardness of the notation is put there knowingly (as in some scores by Morton Feldman for example).

I don't think you need to be pedantic to regard the 2+3+3 bar as 8/8 - that's exactly what it is!

What makes it 8/8? Presumably the same would be true of 3+2+3 or 3+3+2 bars.
In the 19th century a lot of music was written using 2/2 signatures.

[Joseph K]

The word you're looking for is "all". Music notation (like any written language) has its conventions, and anything that doesn't conform to them is going to waste time better spent on more interesting aspects of interpretation, unless for some reason the awkwardness of the notation is put there knowingly (as in some scores by Morton Feldman for example).

I don't think you need to be pedantic to regard the 2+3+3 bar as 8/8 - that's exactly what it is!

This is the post I was going to make but ended up not bothering to! Thank you.

[Dave2002]

So what’s wrong with having unusual time signatures anyway? I can imagine 5/5 or 10/5 - and explain them. Seems to me that some, but not all, musicians are trapped by their own conventions.

[Joseph K]

So what’s wrong with having unusual time signatures anyway? I can imagine 5/5 or 10/5 - and explain them. Seems to me that some, but not all, musicians are trapped by their own conventions.

Nothing's wrong with odd time signatures - but they're not the same as conventions like using ties to ensure greatest possible clarity.

[Serial_Apologist]

Nothing's wrong with odd time signatures - but they're not the same as conventions like using ties to ensure greatest possible clarity.

Some places still won't let you in without a tie.

[ahinton]

Some places still won't let you in without a tie.

Some classy bars, for example...

[Serial_Apologist]

Some classy bars, for example...

Which reminds me, I must check to see if The Bass Clef jazz club still operates.

[ostuni]

Ok, I’ll bite: please explain 5/5: just what is the note value of which you’re counting 5 in a bar.