Dvorak: the Early Symphonies (1-5)

[Katzelmacher]

I’m currently listening to these as part of the Kubelik centenary box set that I acquired for an absolutely bargain price back in 2014.

They make for pleasant background listening but I find them almost completely lacking in individual character. These are symphonies that could have been written by any mildly competent person of that timeframe; and the influences - Beethoven and Wagner - are all too obvious.

I can’t think of any other ‘major’ symphonist (I’m not sure Dvorak is considered a major symphonist, though he’s certainly a popular one) who found his voice so late in his career. It was clear that Bruckner had something original to say, even in his early symphonies. Ditto Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky and, of course, Beethoven. But Dvorak’s early stuff strikes me as sheer musical wallpaper.....

[Roslynmuse]

Harsh words! Particularly re No 5 which could really only be by Dvorak.

Having said that, I haven't heard 1 - 4 for a long time. There were some recent comments re the influence of Wagner on Dvorak on here - or Dvorak anticipating some of Wagner's ideas...

[Katzelmacher]

Harsh words! Particularly re No 5 which could really only be by Dvorak.

Having said that, I haven't heard 1 - 4 for a long time. There were some recent comments re the influence of Wagner on Dvorak on here - or Dvorak anticipating some of Wagner's ideas...

They’re perfectly pleasant, listenable pieces but I just don’t hear a ‘personality’ behind the music. For some people, that might be an attraction, mind you.

[LMcD]

Harsh words! Particularly re No 5 which could really only be by Dvorak.

Having said that, I haven't heard 1 - 4 for a long time. There were some recent comments re the influence of Wagner on Dvorak on here - or Dvorak anticipating some of Wagner's ideas...

I quite agree. As Del Boy would say, it's actually my most favourite Dvorak symphony (or should that be 'most favouritest'?)

[Katzelmacher]

I’ve just re-listened to the 6th and found it very ho-hum.

There is reason why 7,8,9 tend to be bundled together on twofer CD sets, along with a select choice of concert overtures.

[rauschwerk]

I’ve just re-listened to the 6th and found it very ho-hum.

Your loss, unquestionably! It might not be up to the exalted standard of the 7th but it's a very fine piece.

[cloughie]

1 and 2 are not brilliant, but 3 to 9 are welcome on my player anytime - lovely music full of lovely tunes - Kertesz and many other conductors bring them alive for your pleasure.

[Keraulophone]

No.3 sounds quite charming to me in this recording by a gorgeous-sounding VPO conducted by Myung-Wung Chung c/w the 7th.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8079710--dvorak-symphonies-nos-3-7

[kea]

Nos. 3 and 4 are honestly probably my favourite Dvořák symphonies alongside No. 7, and all three show a very strong musical personality, even if it's not the one he cultivated in other works. (Dvořák has a split personality to some extent, one half epic German symphonist and one half sociable Bohemian nationalist, and rarely do the two interact. Compare the 9th and 10th string quartets for an example of each.)

The only symphony I genuinely can't stand is No. 9, can't tell if this is simply having heard it too often, or just finding the musical material a bit too thin and overexposing Dvořák's tendency to like every four-bar phrase he meets.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Nos. 3 and 4 are honestly probably my favourite Dvořák symphonies alongside No. 7, and all three show a very strong musical personality, even if it's not the one he cultivated in other works. (Dvořák has a split personality to some extent, one half epic German symphonist and one half sociable Bohemian nationalist, and rarely do the two interact. Compare the 9th and 10th string quartets for an example of each.)

The only symphony I genuinely can't stand is No. 9, can't tell if this is simply having heard it too often, or just finding the musical material a bit too thin and overexposing Dvořák's tendency to like every four-bar phrase he meets.

Join the club. I'd rank the ninth behind 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 for sure and not far ahead of the others, if at all. It's too formulaic - repeat four times and if nothing occurs, bring back the theme from first or second movement.

But it gets bums on seats...

[Bryn]

Join the club. I'd rank the ninth behind 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 for sure and not far ahead of the others, if at all. It's too formulaic - repeat four times and if nothing occurs, bring back the theme from first or second movement.

But it gets bums on seats...

Familiarity and popularity both breed contempt, perhaps. From the New World was the first symphony I ever heard on record. It was the only multi-disc set my father had. I was strictly forbidden to play the discs myself. He always sharpened the rose prickle (roses do not have thorns) stylus prior to each spinning of the set. Ormandy was the conductor. I still fail to find the work 'brown bread'. Indeed, I am prompted to give the Kertesz (CD) a spin.

[vinteuil]

roses do not have thorns...

... interesting! I suspect they still do for poets and ordinary folk : the prickle is reserved for botanists and those who know.

I'm grateful for this knowledge, thank you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorns,_spines,_and_prickles

.

[LMcD]

Familiarity and popularity both breed contempt, perhaps. From the New World was the first symphony I ever heard on record. It was the only multi-disc set my father had. I was strictly forbidden to play the discs myself. He always sharpened the rose prickle (roses do not have thorns) stylus prior to each spinning of the set. Ormandy was the conductor. I still fail to find the work 'brown bread'. Indeed, I am prompted to give the Kertesz (CD) a spin.

I think that Ormandy recording of the New World Symphony may well have been the first classical record I ever bought - there was a picture of a butte, or some such rocky outcrop, on the cover.

[Bryn]

... interesting! I suspect they still do for poets and ordinary folk : the prickle is reserved for botanists and those who know.

I'm grateful for this knowledge, thank you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorns,_spines,_and_prickles

.

To my father, and Imhofs, for that matter IIRC, they were thorns, I must admit.

[Roslynmuse]

Familiarity and popularity both breed contempt, perhaps. From the New World was the first symphony I ever heard on record. It was the only multi-disc set my father had. I was strictly forbidden to play the discs myself. He always sharpened the rose prickle (roses do not have thorns) stylus prior to each spinning of the set. Ormandy was the conductor. I still fail to find the work 'brown bread'. Indeed, I am prompted to give the Kertesz (CD) a spin.

It's not a piece I listen to frequently now, but when I do it is with 95% pleasure - I feel now that there are creaky moments in the Finale, but even there they are more than balanced out by some lovely things. The opening of the whole work is absolutely magical, to my ears, at least. It was the work I 'learned' sonata form from (in a very rudimentary way), in my case from a Toscanini/ NBC SO LP, before hearing it live for the first time aged 13 so it has a special place in my memory.