James Levine (1943-2021)

[ahinton]

To be honest you could say exactly the same about Richard Wagner in Bayreuth at least for the first 80 years - surrounded by sycophants and post-mortem apologists. The extraordinary thing about Wagner is that because of his genius and magnetic power even people vastly more talented than Levine (e.g. Hans Von Bulow ) were prepared to tolerate working with him. The story of Levine , as others have said , is how a merely competent conductor can acquire such power and abuse it.
It could be argued that Wagner set the trend for the all powerful music maestro to whom all must defer. The problem with that is that surprisingly he was reasonably well behaved as a director and conductor and indeed often defended the musicians interests . I don’t think he would have suspended their pay during a pandemic for example . Had he done so nothing would ever been performed as there were plenty more diseases then!

Good points!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Good points!

As soon as I posted it I realised there are quite a few examples of him massively throwing his weight around - it’s a mixed picture !

[cloughie]

I beg to disagree. The issue is neither RB's peronsal view of Wagner's music nor whether or to what extent he is "bothered either way" about Levine's music making; it is the fact that the long-term idolisation of Levine has enabled his reprehensible extra-musical conduct to continue largely unchallenged for years.

Please yourself - I’ll stick to my version! Make your own mind up whether you listen to Wagner, listen to Levine’s recordings or even listen to Levine’s recordings of Wagner.

[Richard Barrett]

you seem to partially exonerate Wagner’s behaviour because of his great music

Wrong. Think again. If you can find a point where I exonerate his behaviour in any way please go ahead.

[Katzelmacher]

Please yourself - I’ll stick to my version! Make your own mind up whether you listen to Wagner, listen to Levine’s recordings or even listen to Levine’s recordings of Wagner.

I ought to add: his DG Ring Cycle is definitely among the least recommendable versions. I’m toying with the idea of listening to it again to see how far I get this time.

[cloughie]

I ought to add: his DG Ring Cycle is definitely among the least recommendable versions. I’m toying with the idea of listening to it again to see how far I get this time.

You’ll probably like it even less now! I don’t think I’ve come across it and I don’t think I have the time or inclination to add any more Rings in the next year or two - sounds like trees!

[ahinton]

you seem to partially exonerate Wagner’s behaviour because of his great music

Where does RB do that?

[ahinton]

Please yourself - I’ll stick to my version! Make your own mind up whether you listen to Wagner, listen to Levine’s recordings or even listen to Levine’s recordings of Wagner.

That's your prerogative just as it is mine what I choose to listen to. Listening to Wagner, whose mature music in particular I admire immensely, does not blind me to his failings as a human being; the same may be said of Chopin (though his example is of considerably less rlevance in the present context) and Schmitt; as to Levine, yes, he was without doubt a gifted musician but by no means in the upper echelons of the conducting world.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Possibly a trite point : But do you have to have something slightly evil in you to convey that in music ? For example for all Liszt’s devilish reputation works like the Mephisto Waltz always strike me as very contained , almost arty. The fact that he reinvented himself as the Abbé is not in the least surprising . Whereas just the first few bars of Alberich / Hagen in Act 2 Gotterdamerung and you know exactly where you are - heart of darkness.

[cloughie]

Where does RB do that?

#48, maybe you read it with more agreement than I do!

Anyway I’m moving on from this - I see little point in continuing the disucssion!

[Katzelmacher]

Possibly a trite point : But do you have to have something slightly evil in you to convey that in music ? For example for all Liszt’s devilish reputation works like the Mephisto Waltz always strike me as very contained , almost arty. The fact that he reinvented himself as the Abbé is not in the least surprising . Whereas just the first few bars of Alberich / Hagen in Act 2 Gotterdamerung and you know exactly where you are - heart of darkness.

Peter Hall - by no means a convinced Wagnerian - once described the Ring as ‘a masterpiece, but a malevolent masterpiece’ and I think I understand his point.

As to the discussion of Hitler several pages back - had Wagner known Hitler, I’m sure he would have reserved for him the same contempt with which he treated all politicians and would-be politicians (he and Kropotkin knew but didn’t like each other). That’s not to say, of course, that he wouldn’t have found a use for Hitler’s idol-worship.

And it ought to be said that, despite his writings, Wagner never involved himself in political anti-semitism and refused to sign a petition calling for Jews to be removed from positions in politics and the art (he may have been guarding his future self-interest there, of course).

[Ein Heldenleben]

Peter Hall - by no means a convinced Wagnerian - once described the Ring as ‘a masterpiece, but a malevolent masterpiece’ and I think I understand his point.

As to the discussion of Hitler several pages back - had Wagner known Hitler, I’m sure he would have reserved for him the same contempt with which he treated all politicians and would-be politicians (he and Kropotkin knew but didn’t like each other). That’s not to say, of course, that he wouldn’t have found a use for Hitler’s idol-worship.

And it ought to be said that, despite his writings, Wagner never involved himself in political anti-semitism and refused to sign a petition calling for Jews to be removed from positions in politics and the art (he may have been guarding his future self-interest there, of course).

It has a great deal of malevolence in it but if you were to sum it up as ‘evil is destroyed (along with pretty much everything else )’ that is one interpretation. The recent ROH ring emphasised the birth of a new braver world but I don’t see that in Wagner’s stage directions. It all depends on how much you trust the Rhinemaidens ....
I’m not a fan of hypothetical history but do you think , given Wagner’s endless wordy advice to King Ludwig on Bavarian / German politics Wagner might have been tempted to give Hitler a few well chosen words of advice ...? Ludwig pretty much diplomatically ignored Wagner’s political thoughts it appears ...

[Katzelmacher]

It has a great deal of malevolence in it but if you were to sum it up as ‘evil is destroyed (along with pretty much everything else )’ that is one interpretation. The recent ROH ring emphasised the birth of a new braver world but I don’t see that in Wagner’s stage directions. It all depends on how much you trust the Rhinemaidens ....
I’m not a fan of hypothetical history but do you think , given Wagner’s endless wordy advice to King Ludwig on Bavarian / German politics Wagner might have been tempted to give Hitler a few well chosen words of advice ...? Ludwig pretty much diplomatically ignored Wagner’s political thoughts it appears ...

Wagner and Ludwig were about as politically incompatible as you could get - the one an ex-revolutionary socialist, the other a hard-line monarchical reactionary. Some have speculated that Wagner shifted to the right in later life (as did Verdi - to the far right, if evidence is to be believed), but I don’t think he necessarily saw it that way. He came to ‘believe in the Patriarch’ in the absence of the kind of state government subsidy he would’ve preferred. There is some evidence that the two men didn’t actually like each other much as people, despite Ludwig’s admiration for Wagner’s art and Wagner’s appreciation of Ludwig’s munificence. Wagner certainly fell out of favour at court when he referred to Ludwig as ‘my lad’!