Originally posted by Richard Barrett
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Timing is everything when it comes to Brexit and citizenship it would seem. https://britishingermany.org/2020/06...citizenship-2/ -
It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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I read somewhere that Rattle will have dual citizenship. My wife (born in Germany), daughter and son, all UK residents, took a German passport right after the Brexit vote and are now dual citizens. Maybe it is the UK that won't accept dual.Originally posted by Richard Barrett View PostComment
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Now I'm even more confused... I think I shall have to look into this again!Comment
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I don't think it's a problem for the UK, but Germany has different rules and might say she would have to relinquish her German citizenshipOriginally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
From here https://passportia.org/blog/5228-bre...itizenship.php My bold, as it seems to be the case! So yes would be worth looking into again, especially as uncertainty Brexit-wise is not an issue now - at least in this sort of issue.Germany’s dual nationality laws are far from straight-forward and the status of those hoping to obtain British-German dual nationality through naturalisation after Brexit is unlikely to be clarified before the UK’s exit from the EU on the 29th of March 2019. Those with ancestry-based claims may not be affected. However, it is strongly recommended that those interested in acquiring British-German dual citizenship seek specialist legal advice or consult their German Consulate.Comment
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Today's London 'Times', page 14:Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
He said that he would keep his British citizenship, adding that it would be "emotionally impossible" not to.
I believe that dual nationality is not allowed in The Netherlands.Comment
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Joining the discussion here rather late, but there's a lot to talk about regarding the SSR/LSO/BRSO situation, to state the obvious. To start somewhere, it says something about the magnitude of this news that on this side of the pond, even The New York Times devoted an article to it:
OK, sure, we don't have live concerts and operas in NYC for the NYT to cover, besides other classical music goings-on in NYC and elsewhere in the USA. But even if there were, the NYT still would have been on this news. Joshua Barone notes the new hall, and that SSR:
However, if recent culture budget projects in Germany are any indication, this hall may well go over-budget and behind schedule, per this other NYT article on recent big budget culture construction snafus in Germany are any indication. These include the Elbphilharmonie, besides the opera house in Cologne:"....will once again find himself involved in the building of a new concert hall, in the Werksviertel-Mitte area — a modern contrast to the neo-Classical Herkulessaal in the city center. The project, funded and led by the state of Bavaria, began while [Mariss] Jansons was still alive. Construction is expected to begin in 2022 and will likely last three or four years, Nikolaus Pont, the Bavarian Radio Symphony’s manager, said in an interview."
Hopefully the BR/BRSO folks won't make the same mistakes that have plagued those other projects in Germany. Maybe SSR can bring his past experience with the construction of Symphony Hall in Birmingham to the Munich project, to keep the folks there in line, on time, and reasonably within budget. (Modest and pointless prediction: if/when the new hall is completed, one wing of it will be named the "Mariss Jansons Saal", or something to that effect. If there are multiple performing spaces, other sections could be called "Eugen Jochum Saal" or "Rafael Kubelik Saal".)
But speaking of predictions, regarding who will be next at the LSO, my first thought was to look at their current roster of principal guest conductors, and also of recent past principal guest conductors. Three names come to mind in that context:
* The two current principal guest conductors of the LSO are Francois-Xavier Roth and Gianandrea Noseda.
* Recently, Daniel Harding was principal guest conductor.
In general, any one of them would be a good choice. Of the three, I happen to think most highly of Noseda. However:
* Noseda has the National Symphony Orchestra in Washington, D.C., and takes over the Zurich Opera soon.
* Roth has the Gurzenich Orchestra in Cologne, besides his French ensemble Les Siecles.
* Harding still has the Swedish Radio Symphony, since 2007. Interestingly, though, his current Swedish Radio contract is up in 2023.
For Noseda and Roth, the question is how much hassle each would be willing to live with, in terms of passports, work visas, etc., given the new situation. In principle, though, if the LSO voted for either one of them, everything can be managed somehow, if with much more inconvenience compared to before. At least 4 other continental European conductors have principal conductor posts with UK orchestras (Sondergard/RSNO, Karabits/Bournemouth, Rustioni/Ulster Orchestra, Salonen/Philharmonia). But it will be interesting to see how the dynamics there play out over the next 5-10 years, granted that the Philharmonia is trading one Finn for another as principal conductor soon.
Harding has the logistical advantage of being British, to be sure, in terms of navigating bureaucracy under the new situation. So does Pappano, who would be an excellent choice, IMHO, if somewhat a short-term choice, since Pappano is only 5 years younger than Rattle. But if Monteux could ask for a 25-year contract at age 86, hey, whatever
. Clearly a lot of factors come into it, like:
(a) who's available
(b) who's interested
(c) whom does the LSO like
(d) how much additional bureaucratic hassle is the new principal conductor willing to deal with, especially if she/he isn't British?
Of course, as an American, my opinion carries nothing with the LSO, of course
. Actually, neither does the worst gossip in classical music, whose suggestion of MG-T is idiotic, as is usual with him, not for anything amiss about her (not at all), but for the simple reason that she has only guest-conducted the LSO once. To be absolutely clear, I use the i-word to characterize the gossip, not MG-T. I would hope that the LSO is smart enough not to listen to anything from the gossip, but instead pretty much pivot away from whatever he bloviates about. (This is a good rule of thumb when dealing with ignorant, arrogant narcissists who know little, but consider themselves "very stable geniuses".)
Plus, MG-T gets to work, at least in normal times, in what sounds like the best orchestral hall in the UK. (Disclosure: have never been to Birmingham and thus to Symphony Hall. One day, it would be nice to hear the CBSO live there and to experience the hall for myself.) Why would MG-T give that up, for a new post without a hall anywhere as good as Birmingham? Plus, as others have noted, MG-T is pure gold when it comes to marketing, fundraising, and general raising of enthusiasm for the CBSO. My guess is that the CBSO will do whatever it takes to keep her with them, and not lose her to the LSO or anyone else any time soon (even though that day will eventually come).
The 2-year timeline for the LSO is actually fairly standard, at least by American standards, when a music director gives notice and the search committee kicks into action. Chicago is one example, certainly the biggest North American orchestra prize on the market now for a new music director, as Muti leaves in 2022, but the news kicked in early in 2020 pre-pandemic. It only seems unusual in the case of SSR, as he had given the Berlin Philharmonic 5 years' advance notice that he would be moving on, and also given his two prior long-term tenures. Plus, as one aphorism goes with orchestras here, "the time to look for a new music director is when you hired the last one". In other words, orchestras always have to be in perpetual search mode, in terms of keeping relationships going with conductors, or inviting new talent around, to be ready for when the time comes to find the next guy/gal as the next head honcho on the podium. Even the CBSO, as much as they don't want to lose MG-T, knows this, even though the CBSO kind of got caught flat-footed with their past two music director searches, and lucked out when one late candidate each time swept everyone off their feet. It's great when that happens, but orchestras can't count on that kind of good fortune in every single search.
With the LSO, if they want to maintain continuity and not have a gap between principal conductors, they now have 2 years. At a guess, they will come up with a perfectly reasonable and solid choice, when they have the discussions, take their time, vote, make offers, and hopefully get a "yes" from someone. Ironically, with the pandemic, depending on how much time it takes for something like "normal life" to return, with live orchestral concerts happening and audiences allowed to attend to some degree, it may not be as tremendous a hurry now to find a new principal conductor, since concerts are so severely curtailed now, and it's not possible to market a vibrant new conductor to get people to attend concerts now anyway.
BTW, one last irony of Manuel Brug breaking the story in Die Welt last weekend. Brug was one of the critics who piled on the criticism of Rattle n Berlin during the first years of SSR's tenure there, as being a lame-o lightweight who was no Karajan or Furtwangler.Comment
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I was pleased to see the NYT taking such an interest in this story if for no other reason than it shows an enduring involvement in the U.K. post Brexit. I have high if tempered hopes for Biden’s presidency on this front. That it’s come to this is of course beyond tragic. Find me a Tory interested in culture. And then grill them literally and figuratively about what’s happening.Comment
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I think there must be a reciprocal arrangement between some countries. After a very lengthy process of about 18 months, I finally got my French citizenship in 2018, and was allowed to have dual citizenship.Originally posted by gurnemanz View PostComment
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Thanks for the excellent analysis BSP. I don’t think the “bureaucracy” will be a factor . The UK govt have made it Fairly clear that highly skilled well paid people won’t have a problem with visas and work permits and conductors at this level have assistants and agents who sort everything, and I mean everything for them. It is a very pampered existence when you are on £10,000 to £20,000 per perf - not much need to even lift a phone really . You are right about the symphony hall In Birmingham- superb acoustic . I heard Rattle do Mahler 8 there once . Superb performance but curiously unmoving...Comment
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I love the smell of grilled Mellor in the morning.Comment
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Accompanied by a bleeding chunk of Wagner, presumably.Originally posted by muzzer View PostComment
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Watch out, the long arm of the topic police will be after you with that kind of talk.Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
Some Tories are interested in culture - what they don't want is having the great unwashed getting interested in it too.Comment
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