Rattle To Leave LSO?

[Petrushka]

There is a full page report by Katy Brand in the weekend i headed ‘Our Prime Minister doesn’t know his arts from his elbow’. She goes to say ‘Sir Simon Rattle would be leaving his post at the London Philharmonic Orchestra...’
It would appear that Ms Brand does not know her LSO from her LPO. Not only that neither does the i sub editor or maybe these articles are submitted unchecked.

When you see basic errors like this you lose all confidence in whatever else the article has to say. Journalistic standards have been getting lower for years and this is just the latest example.

[richardfinegold]

Absolutely. People get to be "stars" for all kinds of random reasons, as well as good ones (and indeed bad ones, like being unscrupulous in self-promotion).

Would Elizabeth Schwarzkopf sleeping with Joseph Goebbels qualify as shameless self promotion?

[Richard Barrett]

Would Elizabeth Schwarzkopf sleeping with Joseph Goebbels qualify as shameless self promotion?

I don't think one should assume that young women are to blame for getting into situations like that. On the other hand, as an enthusiastic Nazi, she was clearly a highly egregious individual!

[Serial_Apologist]

Would Elizabeth Schwarzkopf sleeping with Joseph Goebbels qualify as shameless self promotion?

Only had she first changed her surname.

[Leinster Lass]

I don't think one should assume that young women are to blame for getting into situations like that. On the other hand, as an enthusiastic Nazi, she was clearly a highly egregious individual!

I've just googled 'egregious' - as I've been advised to do when in doubt as to the meaning of something - and it seems to mean (a) 'outstandingly bad' and (b) 'remarkably good'. Perhaps she managed to be both.
Almost as tricky as the German verb 'einstellen'!

[Katzelmacher]

I’ve never liked Schwarzkopf as a singer (‘hers is the art that rarely conceals art’ as someone once rightly said), but the Nazi stories have been laid on with a trowel. I tend to think of her as an ambitious person who did what had to be done to get to the top - if that meant sleeping with Nazi high-ups that was fine; ditto sleeping with the high-ups of the allied forces. I do think marrying Walter Legge was taking it a step too far, though: he wasn’t a pleasant proposition from any angle.

[Katzelmacher]

I’ve never been entirely convinced by Rattle as a conductor. A lot of his reputation seems to have been based on the ‘galvanising’ personal effect he had on the CBSO back in the early eighties - he arrived and suddenly things started happening for them. The concert hall they’d been wanting for years suddenly got built. They had that great contract with EMI. The Mahler cycle went international. And there was all that outreach work with inner city Brummie kids, at least one of whom achieved an international career. Plus, SR was considered photogenic and he was obviously intelligent. About the only contemporary conductor to become a household name in Britain (Andre Previn had left by this point). His programming was pretty fearless for one of the most philistine of the provinces, though I’ve no idea how many people actually turned out to hear him conduct Webern, etc.


But Berlin saw him basically attempting the same thing. Did the same thing really need doing, over there? And he was recording a lot of repertoire that his heart obviously wasn’t in (Carmen? Carmina Burana?). Still, he remains a draw and he remains the conductor of the ONLY concert that I’ve ever failed to get into (a Mahler 2 at the Proms back in 1999). Musicians like him because he means credibility AND big bucks.

So, not at all surprised he’s heading back to Germany, where he’ll presumably be given all the things he had to ask for in London. He is a loss to Britain but British orchestras must now get used to employing BRITISH conductors with unglamorous and unsaleable British names. :)

[Cockney Sparrow]

.........So, not at all surprised he’s heading back to Germany, where he’ll presumably be given all the things he had to ask for in London. He is a loss to Britain but British orchestras must now get used to employing BRITISH conductors with unglamorous and unsaleable British names.......... :)

I'm not placed to judge Rattle as a conductor but I'd had a similar thought about the future situation in the UK.

Is Pappano an international name - he comes out of opera from his background and practice but in any case I feel, strongly, we have been lucky to have him and IIRC he made his home here and of course has extended his contract.

Pre-pandemic I wondered when Pappano would make his next move which of course must come. I get the impression that top rank artists (in terms of ticket selling draws and/or worth as an artist) come to London partly to work with him. Whether they will want to do the same in future years - perhaps less so.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm not placed to judge Rattle as a conductor but I'd had a similar thought about the future situation in the UK.

Is Pappano an international name - he comes out of opera from his background and practice but in any case I feel, strongly, we have been lucky to have him and IIRC he made his home here and of course has extended his contract.

Pre-pandemic I wondered when Pappano would make his next move which of course must come. I get the impression that top rank artists (in terms of ticket selling draws and/or worth as an artist) come to London partly to work with him. Whether they will want to do the same in future years - perhaps less so.

I would rate Pappano as currently the best opera conductor in the world . Bold claim but I can’t think of anyone who comes close. He is also a superb (world-class) repetiteur. I am not sure how interested he is in the standard symphonic repertory though...

[Ein Heldenleben]

I agree with all that. We also heard him conduct Barenboim in the 2 Brahms concertos (initially maybe a little nervous of his mentor), then the sparks flew magnificently!

On one of the recent ROH lockdown concerts I was left literally open-mouthed at the quality of his piano accompaniment- in a big variety of styles and often playing clunky piano arrangements. He also conducted a wonderful Das Lied Von der Erde - a conductor’s graveyard if ever there was one.

[Katzelmacher]

I'm not placed to judge Rattle as a conductor but I'd had a similar thought about the future situation in the UK.

Is Pappano an international name - he comes out of opera from his background and practice but in any case I feel, strongly, we have been lucky to have him and IIRC he made his home here and of course has extended his contract.

Pre-pandemic I wondered when Pappano would make his next move which of course must come. I get the impression that top rank artists (in terms of ticket selling draws and/or worth as an artist) come to London partly to work with him. Whether they will want to do the same in future years - perhaps less so.

Pappano has been running the ROH for close-on twenty years. I believe he intended to stay for only ten years and stated unequivocally that he would not renew his contract after that - his marriage had apparently broken up because of work pressure - but then, to everyone’s surprise, he decided to stay. Presumably, he feels happy there and, though you hear occasional stories about his relationship with the orchestra, the ROH seems happy to have him stay.

Brexit will certainly make Covent Garden less appealing to international names and it is not the wealthiest international house to begin with, so there’ll be no question of stuffing artists’ mouths with gold.

Not heard Pappano in the non-operatic repertoire, unless you discount a Barbican Verdi Requiem which he conducted just before he took up the ROH appointment. I remember it as being a splendid occasion.

[Serial_Apologist]

Is Pappano an international name [?]

No, it's Italian.

[gurnemanz]

On one of the recent ROH lockdown concerts I was left literally open-mouthed at the quality of his piano accompaniment- in a big variety of styles and often playing clunky piano arrangements. He also conducted a wonderful Das Lied Von der Erde - a conductor’s graveyard if ever there was one.

I have a couple of Lieder discs where Pappano and Ian Bostridge form a very rewarding partnership. A Wolf recital and Schubert Schwanengesang.

[oddoneout]

Difficult to know where to put this or whether to start a new thread but these issues did appear on this one so here goes. It does not make for happy reading but does spell out the detail of what musicians face.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/feb/12/brexit-is-destroying-music-why-has-the-government-let-this-happen

The whole thing gets much worse of course if an instrument or equipment also needs to be transported as well as the person
This has detail of the EU/UK debate https://www.freemovement.org.uk/the-...ans-explained/

[Roslynmuse]

Difficult to know where to put this or whether to start a new thread but these issues did appear on this one so here goes. It does not make for happy reading but does spell out the detail of what musicians face.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/feb/12/brexit-is-destroying-music-why-has-the-government-let-this-happen

The whole thing gets much worse of course if an instrument or equipment also needs to be transported as well as the person
This has detail of the EU/UK debate https://www.freemovement.org.uk/the-...ans-explained/

Thanks, oddoneout. I've shared Joseph Middleton's article on FB. As you say, this doesn't take into account the paperwork around musical instruments and equipment. I hope organizations like the ISM, which is working hard to tackle this problem, can achieve tangible results before the rot sets in irreversibly.