Rattle To Leave LSO?

[Leinster Lass]

Apparently it is disputed whether the UK or the EU turned down a deal that would have allowed artistes from the former to work for 90 days a year visa-free in the latter. I wonder whether that might have been the proverbial last straw.

[LHC]

Apparently it is disputed whether the UK or the EU turned down a deal that would have allowed artistes from the former to work for 90 days a year visa-free in the latter. I wonder whether that might have been the proverbial last straw.

There have been rumours that Rattles was going to Munich for some time now, so I don't think this latest lie from the Government would have had any impact. I imagine it has taken some time to negotiate an agreement that would allow Rattle to move to the BRSO while still allowing the LSO to save face; hence today's announcement that he is 'staying', when in fact he is leaving much earlier than expected. I am sure that when he was appointed to the LSO it was intimated that this would be his last move.

With regard to the EU negotiations, I suspect that both the Government's and the EU's version of events are technically correct. I expect the UK Government did indeed put forward a proposal that would have allowed UK artists unfettered access to the EU (on the basis that the UK should have an exceptionally generous settlement with the EU post-Brexit), and that this was turned down by the EU, who said that the UK could instead have the same deal for arts and business access offered to other nations. Rather than accepting this, the UK Government will have said, well, if we can't have our own unrealistic option, we'd rather have nothing than the perfectly workable solution you are offering us.

[Nick Armstrong]

Apparently it is disputed whether the UK or the EU turned down a deal that would have allowed artistes from the former to work for 90 days a year visa-free in the latter. I wonder whether that might have been the proverbial last straw.

[oddoneout]

More on the EU/UK blame apportioning.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/10/musicians-hit-out-after-report-uk-rejected-visa-free-eu-travel

Personally I doubt that the UK government gave any real thought to the particular differences between musicians et al travelling to and working in the EU and business people - not least because it was all so last minute and back of a fag packet to get any sort of deal across the line at any cost which precluded any kind of scrutiny or consideration of different requirements of different businesses. A statement from a 'spokesperson' I read in an article about the current protest, which I cannot at present locate, effectively said that musicians should use the advice for business travellers. That advice excludes supplying services or fulfilling contracts, for which different arrangements are necessary on a country by country basis, and therefore rules out musicians etc.
More here https://www.ism.org/news/news-ism-ca...usicians-in-eu
and just noticed this, but have only skimmed https://completemusicupdate.com/arti...for-musicians/

[Darkbloom]

'I remain committed to the LSO', said the thrice-married Rattle, whose notions of commitment might be sketchier than most.

[Bert]

'I remain committed to the LSO', said the thrice-married Rattle, whose notions of commitment might be sketchier than most.

Indeed, his notion of fidelity seems lacking. And the way he dumped his second wife and eloped with a younger woman was quite disgraceful. If it was Brexit that caused this as others on this forum believe, then it shoes that every cloud has a silver lining! I for one will be glad to see the back of him. Hopefully it will make space for younger talent to come through (lord knows there's plenty of that around, right now).

[Frances_iom]

...And the way he dumped his second wife and eloped with a younger woman was quite disgraceful...

seems perfectly acceptable behaviour for our current premier.

[Bert]

seems perfectly acceptable behaviour for our current premier.

Two wrongs make a right? Have I understood you?

[Frances_iom]

just a comment - I'm no fan of BJ and as the "English Trump" hope the sooner he + more importantly his backers are removed from controlling positions the better.

[Bert]

just a comment - I'm no fan of BJ and as the "English Trump" hope the sooner he + more importantly his backers are removed from controlling positions the better.

I don't think it needed pointing out that Boris is obnoxious. We're off topic.

[jayne lee wilson]

Indeed, his notion of fidelity seems lacking. And the way he dumped his second wife and eloped with a younger woman was quite disgraceful. If it was Brexit that caused this as others on this forum believe, then it shoes that every cloud has a silver lining! I for one will be glad to see the back of him. Hopefully it will make space for younger talent to come through (lord knows there's plenty of that around, right now).

You presume to comment on other people's personal relationships about which you know little or nothing? And judge them by the very faulty value system of gender stereotype and idée reçus? What makes such a choice "disgraceful"?

Rattle was 53 when he married Kožená, who was 35. What is an "acceptable" age gap between two people, in your opinion? How does one arrive at such a "rule"?

Then segueing from that into some notion of artistic infidelity is just ridiculous. And if you are "glad to see the back of him" you can't have listened to his remarkable CBSO catalogue terribly closely, as I did, month on month, year on year - having followed his career since he began to conduct my own local orchestra, the RLPO, the 1970s. It was clear early on that this was a very extraordinary talent.

Of course it is a shame if he is not extending his LSO tenure. Perhaps Berlin wasn't the best match for him; the recorded legacy there is very uneven. Though many of his live (often adventurous) performances in the DCH showed otherwise; at times, it could be wonderful. But the orchestra is very gifted, very wilful; not the easiest to....persuade.
It always takes two....

[Frances_iom]

maybe best if the posts are deleted or edited - I should probably have bit my tongue re BJ - Rattle's musicianship is not I hope in question - Brexit and especially current travel restrictions are going to make it difficult for many, who like him, hold posts in the UK and the EU with family in both - one of the many personal problems caused by nationalism destroying near 50 years of easy movement.

[Bert]

You presume to comment on other people's personal relationships about which you know little or nothing? And judge them by the very faulty value system of gender stereotype and idée reçus? What makes such a choice "disgraceful"?

Rattle was 53 when he married Kožená, who was 35. What is an "acceptable" age gap between two people, in your opinion? How does one arrive at such a "rule"?

Then segueing from that into some notion of artistic infidelity is just ridiculous. And if you are "glad to see the back of him" you can't have listened to his remarkable CBSO catalogue terribly closely, as I did, month on month, year on year - having followed his career since he began to conduct my own local orchestra, the RLPO, the 1970s. It was clear early on that this was a very extraordinary talent.

Of course it is a shame if he is not extending his LSO tenure. Perhaps Berlin wasn't the best match for him; the recorded legacy there is very uneven. Though many of his live (often adventurous) performances in the DCH showed otherwise; at times, it could be wonderful. But the orchestra is very gifted, very wilful; not the easiest to....persuade.
It always takes two....

I stated a fact that he dumped his wife, walked out on her and left her distraught for a younger woman. His actions speak for themselves. I did more than "presume to comment", I judged him. And I did not 'segue' into anything 'artistic' as you claim. Artistically he's sound, IMV. He just doesn't do loyalty.

Regarding your non sequitur regarding me being happy to see that back of him meaning that I couldn't have listened carefully to his CBSO recordings - I have probably attended more of his concerts in Birmingham than you have, and I own most of his CBSO CDs (although I didn't enjoy his BPO concerts that I attended) - it's you that is being 'presumptuous'. If the cap fits, wear it ...

I wonder if we can tempt Yannick, I think he'd be marvellous ...

[french frank]

maybe best if the posts are deleted or edited - I should probably have bit my tongue re BJ - Rattle's musicianship is not I hope in question - Brexit and especially current travel restrictions are going to make it difficult for many, who like him, hold posts in the UK and the EU with family in both - one of the many personal problems caused by nationalism destroying near 50 years of easy movement.

I think it would be better if the general line of discussion were ended.

[Bert]

Any takers for Yannick?