Rattle To Leave LSO?

[Bert]

As for Bruckner, Bert's memory seems not to be specific enough to recall which Rattle performance he found so unconvincing, but delving into the archive, Rattle only appears to have done 7-9 in Berlin (although there was a 4th on CD), several of which I heard. His performance of the latest SMPC 9th completion is remarkable, and his returns to it in concert after the CD release became even more convincing...he gave a good talk about that too, video in the DCH archive somewhere.
(Here....https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/concert/2516)

The archive is wrong. It was in London in the early-mid 2000s Rattle BPO (although my memory could be a bit out). I'll try and search. Any the concerts I refer to are physical attendance. I actually attended. Sometimes people refer to concerts and it appears they were actually there, when in fact they streamed it into the living room. I don't stream. That might have to change given the current and foreseeable circumstances.

There are 778 members in this forum, surely someone else was at the concert in London with the BPO & Rattle.

I can't remember the actual symphony, but it probably wasn't 1,2,3,6, 8 or 9. So 4,5 or 7

[Leinster Lass]

You sound pretty Rattled!

Tomorrow I'm going to go through my CD collection and ruthlessly remove any featuring a conductor who has ever been remotely erratic. While I'm at it, there are probably quite a few performers who are also for the chop. This is no time for half measures!. (It will help pass the time until 'Countdown').

[Roslynmuse]

Tomorrow I'm going to go through my CD collection and ruthlessly remove any featuring a conductor who has ever been remotely erratic. While I'm at it, there are probably quite a few performers who are also for the chop. This is no time for half measures!. (It will help pass the time until 'Countdown').

What about the consistently mediocre ones?

[Darkbloom]

The archive is wrong. It was in London in the early-mid 2000s Rattle BPO (although my memory could be a bit out). I'll try and search. Any the concerts I refer to are physical attendance. I actually attended. Sometimes people refer to concerts and it appears they were actually there, when in fact they streamed it into the living room. I don't stream. That might have to change given the current and foreseeable circumstances.

There are 778 members in this forum, surely someone else was at the concert in London with the BPO & Rattle.

I can't remember the actual symphony, but it probably wasn't 1,2,3,6, 8 or 9. So 4,5 or 7

Rattle did Bruckner 9 at the RFH. This was very early in his tenure. I think it was his first concert in London with them.

[Bert]

Rattle did Bruckner 9 at the RFH. This was very early in his tenure. I think it was his first concert in London with them.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the 9th. It could even have been 1999. I was very underwhelmed and so was the chap sitting next to me. I detected this and got a response that he thought it was a poor performance. I said to him that it seemed like he was conducting Haydn. He said 'funny you should say that' I've been at some of the rehearsals in Berlin and he's been taking them 'back to basics' and getting them to play lots of Haydn symphonies. I think the chap may have been connected to the orchestra.

P.S. How did you find out about that concert? It's bugging me now and I shan't sleep if I can't identify that London concert!

[Darkbloom]

I was at the Proms Parsifal with Rattle too. Petra Lang really gave it everything in Act 2. I shall always remember Robert Lloyd miming Klingsor's act of self-emasculation, just so we got the point. I preferred Rattle's conducting of it at the ROH, though, particularly in the temple scene.

[Bert]

I was at the Proms Parsifal with Rattle too. Petra Lang really gave it everything in Act 2. I shall always remember Robert Lloyd miming Klingsor's act of self-emasculation, just so we got the point. I preferred Rattle's conducting of it at the ROH, though, particularly in the temple scene.

Was it a Prom? My memory is obviously pretty bad.

(the Bruckner concert definitely wasn't a Prom, I'm sure about that)

[Roslynmuse]

Was it a Prom? My memory is obviously pretty bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e6xv2m

Bruckner 7 - 2006

[Bert]

And his LSO Live 6th, which I seem to be alone in knowing, is truly outstanding, and in excellent SACD sound too...does wonders for the less than ideal Bruckner acoustic of the Barbican. One of a very select group of great 6ths - a difficult piece to bring off.

You've mentioned it often. But because people don't respond, doesn't mean they don't know it. I bought it as a Hi-Res download when it came out. I've only played it a couple of times and didn't think so much of it. I shall choose it next time I fancy listening to 6. Maybe I need to listen a bit closer.

[Bert]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e6xv2m

Bruckner 7 - 2006

I really, really don't think it was a Prom. If it was, I'm seriously worried about my memory. Thanks by the way for taking the trouble to dig that up.

[jayne lee wilson]

The archive is wrong. It was in London in the early-mid 2000s Rattle BPO (although my memory could be a bit out). I'll try and search. Any the concerts I refer to are physical attendance. I actually attended. Sometimes people refer to concerts and it appears they were actually there, when in fact they streamed it into the living room. I don't stream. That might have to change given the current and foreseeable circumstances.

There are 778 members in this forum, surely someone else was at the concert in London with the BPO & Rattle.

I can't remember the actual symphony, but it probably wasn't 1,2,3,6, 8 or 9. So 4,5 or 7

No, Bert, the Berlin DCH archive isn't wrong, for God's sake . It is a record of concerts in the Philharmonie starting in 2009, so of course a London performance won't be in there. The 4th with the BPO was released in 2007, too early for the DCH. Before that, his sole Bruckner release was the CBSO 7th in 1996. He played the 7th with them often, including a late 90s Prom c/w the Messiaen Chronochromie.
He played the 4th with the BBCSSO in the late 70s, and with the CBSO during the Toward The Millennium series (c/w the Tippett Corelli Fantasia).

I've never come across any mention anywhere of him performing 1-3 or 5. Perhaps there are concert performances, listed deep in an obscure archive somewhere, but it seems very doubtful. No evidence of them in Berlin, and there is no mention of them anywhere in Nicholas Kenyon's book on Rattle. He has always approached this composer with great caution and the necessary respect. Bruckner takes time.....
He did the 6th in concert with the OAE, latterly the excellent LSO Live 6th. His performances of the 9th include both the completion and the unfinished versions.

I don't see the merit in pulling rank over your live attendances or affecting condescension toward streaming. Any musical experience, whether live, streamed, downloaded or off of disc, is a valid one. The more experienced, thoughtful and considered the listening, the more valid it is.

***
Sighing deeply, I would (again ) suggest research into the Berlin DCH Concert Archive for anyone interested in appreciating the remarkable range of Rattle's musical interests and achievements. See #191 for a taster. And you can even listen to them for small fee, as long as 320 kbps AAC streaming isn't beneath you.

https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/concerts

[Darkbloom]

P.S. How did you find out about that concert? It's bugging me now and I shan't sleep if I can't identify that London concert!

I just remember that he did a pair of concerts in London shortly after he took over the BPO. Bruckner 9 was definitely on one programme. I'm not sure about the other but I have a feeling it may have included Mahler 5.

[Darkbloom]

I don't see the merit in pulling rank over your live attendances or affecting condescension toward streaming. Any musical experience, whether live, streamed, downloaded or off of disc, is a valid one. The more experienced, thoughtful and considered the listening, the more valid it is.

I remember Rattle's notorious Proms Heldenleben with the BPO, where he was booed. You often get a better sense of whether a performance really works by experiencing it live in the hall, and that concert was a good example. You felt all the life draining out of you while standing through it, something you may not have appreciated from hearing the live relay.

You seem to be suggesting that an inability to appreciate Rattle can be corrected by force-feeding them a ton of recordings until they get the message and agree with you. People have their opinions, which are no more or less valid than anybody else's.

[Leinster Lass]

What about the consistently mediocre ones?

There will be a rigorous consultation process with the other member of the household, with provision for an appeal when the CD has significant non-musical associations (like the day our daughter did the washing up). I leave it for others to judge whether the consistency outweighs the mediocrity. Woe betide any conductor who made the possibly fatal mistake of recording the same work more than once (cue ominous music).
Rattle's Mahler 1 on EMI Classics with the CBSO is definitely too loud at times and arguably contains one or two rough passages, but goodness me it's exciting, and just the kind of performance that might encourage somebody new to Mahler to investigate the composer further.

[Petrushka]

I remember Rattle's notorious Proms Heldenleben with the BPO, where he was booed. You often get a better sense of whether a performance really works by experiencing it live in the hall, and that concert was a good example. You felt all the life draining out of you while standing through it, something you may not have appreciated from hearing the live relay.

You seem to be suggesting that an inability to appreciate Rattle can be corrected by force-feeding them a ton of recordings until they get the message and agree with you. People have their opinions, which are no more or less valid than anybody else's.

I, too, was present at that Heldenleben performance and, in my opinion, there wasn't that much that was so bad about it that it deserved booing, and booing moreover that seemed to come from one or two daredevils at most. It may have been slightly unwise for Rattle to have chosen a Karajan speciality so early in his Berlin tenure and he left Richard Strauss alone thereafter, a fine Metamorphosen (with the VPO) excepted.

The BPO/Rattle Bruckner performance that Bert is searching for may well be the one referred to by Roslynmuse, the 7th in 2006 at the Proms: https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e6xv2m

Rattle's first London performance as the BPO chief was on October 12 2002, Haydn 88 and Mahler 5. I'm not sure if there were two concerts but I was present at the Mahler. I'll try and find my programme book which will probably list both if there was another.