Rattle To Leave LSO?

[Cockney Sparrow]

I don’t think getting a work permit for a one-off or even a short concert series will be a problem. The problem would be more permanent employment in competitive and remunerative areas . To be honest even when we were in EU there were professions it was well nigh impossible to work - the one that springs to mind is ski instruction. The problem is the faff and the exceptions. For example it’s relatively easy to get a work permit in the States if you are making a news or current affairs film , it’s much harder if you are trying to make an entertainment or drama.

If a performer is moving between EU countries, I've got the impression visas (or the required application/documentation) would be required for each of them. I would welcome correction or confirmation on this point - to set the degree of my outrage on their behalf . I'll only ever be a tourist in the EU.

Also, presumably there are less eminent musicians not commanding the sort of fees indicated for big name conductors and performers who have worked in the EU and will have costs which will marginalise the profit from their working trips? Are there likely to be many more for whom the restrictions will be a very significant burden when they are trying to make a living, especially post Covid.

[Ein Heldenleben]

If a performer is moving between EU countries, I've got the impression visas (or the required application/documentation) would be required for each of them. I would welcome correction or confirmation on this point - to set the degree of my outrage on their behalf . I'll only ever be a tourist in the EU.

Also, presumably there are less eminent musicians not commanding the sort of fees indicated for big name conductors and performers who have worked in the EU and will have costs which will marginalise the profit from their working trips? Are there likely to be many more for whom the restrictions will be a very significant burden when they are trying to make a living, especially post Covid.

Don’t know about the visas - I don’t think that’s the case if you are not working. I am not sure you’ll need a visa even if you are working in the EU - unless you go over the 90 day rule. The problem is the work permit - and that is where it gets complicated and it will cerrtainly be a burden unless you have an organisation e.g. agent or employer sorting it for you. It’s not insuperable . Based on my experience with the US it’s about half a days work for somebody but at short notice it can involve a trip to the US embassy and that is a right pain.

[silvestrione]

...Sorry for any self-repetition here. He is a truly great conductor in so many ways, and will always be a musical hero to me.

Thanks for that Jayne, he is for me too.

I've heard him in the concert hall, chronologically, (all in the UK) with the Bournemouth Symphony, the Philharmonia, the CBSO many times, the NYO, the BPO several times, the VPO, and the LSO, and I now look forward to the mouth-watering prospect of hearing him with the BRSO in a Prom concert in a year or two!

[oddoneout]

If a performer is moving between EU countries, I've got the impression visas (or the required application/documentation) would be required for each of them. I would welcome correction or confirmation on this point - to set the degree of my outrage on their behalf . I'll only ever be a tourist in the EU.

Also, presumably there are less eminent musicians not commanding the sort of fees indicated for big name conductors and performers who have worked in the EU and will have costs which will marginalise the profit from their working trips? Are there likely to be many more for whom the restrictions will be a very significant burden when they are trying to make a living, especially post Covid.

This lists the different arrangements for each country https://www.ism.org/advice/eu-work-p...-for-musicians Then there's the equipment and instruments permissions, and health insurance will be an added cost https://www.ism.org/advice/brexit-update-january-2021

[Tony Halstead]

I have had a rather limited experience of working with Simon, during the 1970s and 1980s; however, all of these were very enjoyable, positive experiences:

In no particular order, either chronological or alphabetical:

1) BBC Proms: a superb reading of Haydn's symphony 60 'Il Distratto', also a very attentive and sympathetic accompaniment to Imogen Cooper in Mozart's K 503, with the English Chamber Orchestra.
2) BBC Proms: Stravinsky's 'Pulcinella' and Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony no.1, with the London Sinfonietta.
3) BBC Roundhouse Proms: Lutyens' 'And Suddenly it's Evening', with London Sinfonietta.
4) Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment: Mozart's 'Idomeneo' .

After all these performances I felt that Simon Rattle was the conductor that I most enjoyed playing for, together with Daniel Barenboim, David Atherton, Elgar Howarth and the deceased Barbirolli, and Horenstein.

[teamsaint]

This lists the different arrangements for each country https://www.ism.org/advice/eu-work-p...-for-musicians Then there's the equipment and instruments permissions, and health insurance will be an added cost https://www.ism.org/advice/brexit-update-january-2021

The healthcare issue is sorted under the new agreement I think ? Perhaps the GHIC got a bit missed in all the other news.
Privare Health insurance would have been recommended in any case, I would have thought, unless the MU has a scheme.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-launches-global-health-insurance-card

( big deal you may well say.....)

[LHC]

I have had a rather limited experience of working with Simon, during the 1970s and 1980s; however, all of these were very enjoyable, positive experiences:

In no particular order, either chronological or alphabetical:

1) BBC Proms: a superb reading of Haydn's symphony 60 'Il Distratto', also a very attentive and sympathetic accompaniment to Imogen Cooper in Mozart's K 503, with the English Chamber Orchestra.
2) BBC Proms: Stravinsky's 'Pulcinella' and Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony no.1, with the London Sinfonietta.
3) BBC Roundhouse Proms: Lutyens' 'And Suddenly it's Evening', with London Sinfonietta.
4) Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment: Mozart's 'Idomeneo' .

After all these performances I felt that Simon Rattle was the conductor that I most enjoyed playing for, after Daniel Barenboim, David Atherton, Elgar Howarth and the deceased Barbirolli, and Horenstein.

The concert performance of Idomeneo with Rattle, the OAE and Philip Langridge at the QEH remains one of my most cherished memories. A thrilling experience and every bar of music seemed to be infused with Mozart’s genius. At the end of a long evening, the whole was capped with the ballet music, played for all it was worth. It was one of those evenings when the thrill of such fine music-making was thoroughly intoxicating.

[oddoneout]

The healthcare issue is sorted under the new agreement I think ? Perhaps the GHIC got a bit missed in all the other news.
Privare Health insurance would have been recommended in any case, I would have thought, unless the MU has a scheme.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-launches-global-health-insurance-card

( big deal you may well say.....)

That has evidently been quite recently sorted out - good to see something has, let's hope the application process actually works! Interesting that it appears to be an actual physical card rather than a digital form.
Slightly OT but perhaps now attention could be turned to those for whom the digital form of their proof of settled status does not work when presented to foreign authorities, and who need a similar card form to present.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Same here. Give me Colin Davis every time (and there were two or three times, I'm glad to say.....).

I never had that chance - it was always Andrew of that ilk (other side of town, if you get my drift) and I certainly wouldn't have traded him for SR; you always feel his heart is in it.

[jayne lee wilson]

I have had a rather limited experience of working with Simon, during the 1970s and 1980s; however, all of these were very enjoyable, positive experiences:

In no particular order, either chronological or alphabetical:

1) BBC Proms: a superb reading of Haydn's symphony 60 'Il Distratto', also a very attentive and sympathetic accompaniment to Imogen Cooper in Mozart's K 503, with the English Chamber Orchestra.
2) BBC Proms: Stravinsky's 'Pulcinella' and Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony no.1, with the London Sinfonietta.
3) BBC Roundhouse Proms: Lutyens' 'And Suddenly it's Evening', with London Sinfonietta.
4) Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment: Mozart's 'Idomeneo' .

After all these performances I felt that Simon Rattle was the conductor that I most enjoyed playing for, after Daniel Barenboim, David Atherton, Elgar Howarth and the deceased Barbirolli, and Horenstein.

He did wonderful things with the OAE much later of course, including Wagner at The Proms, the Haydn Creation, and an outstanding Bruckner 6 - the forerunner of his recent LSO class-leader.

What a shame so many here seem not to have heard his recordings and/or performances on Radio 3 or the Berlin DCH, or apparently been unable to appreciate their considerable merits. All replaced by another round of the currently fashionable lèse-majesté...

Classical Music takes time. Listening takes time. Coming to an understanding and an appreciation of the distinctive contribution of a given artist takes time. The more strikingly individual they are, the more time it takes.... so much easier to dismiss on the basis of headlines and hearsay.

But it always begins and ends - or should - with .....sheer listening....finally the only truth that matters in such contexts.

[makropulos]

On the other hand I was moved by his RVW 5 at the Proms this year. It might have been the circumstances but having heard it three times now I just think he conducted it well and the band played very well. Funny thing about that Mahler - it was terrifically well sung and played but didn’t “take-off” , reach escape velocity. Might have been that I had the prospect of an all day meeting the next day but I don’t think so.

Very much agree about the RVW 5. I thought it was pretty remarkable, and very moving. It takes a special conductor to achieve that (especially under the circumstances). My experience of SR from the late 1970s until now is that though he's distinctly uneven, when he's at his best he produces something exceptional. For that, I'll always give him a listen.

[Richard Barrett]

Classical Music takes time. Listening takes time. Coming to an understanding and an appreciation of the distinctive contribution of a given artist takes time. The more strikingly individual they are, the more time it takes.... so much easier to dismiss on the basis of headlines and hearsay.

With respect to which: those of SR's recordings I've spent time with (various Mahler and Bruckner, for example) have usually impressed me at first and then paled with repeated acquaintance, so "taking time" can work both ways. But of course he always deserves a listen - I think Makropoulos has it right - I did spend the only free evening of one of my London visits at one of his concerts. So let's not confuse lèse-majesté with informed and selective criticism please!

I admit however that my opinion is somewhat coloured by his somewhat incurious attitude towards contemporary composition.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I have had a rather limited experience of working with Simon, during the 1970s and 1980s; however, all of these were very enjoyable, positive experiences:

In no particular order, either chronological or alphabetical:

1) BBC Proms: a superb reading of Haydn's symphony 60 'Il Distratto', also a very attentive and sympathetic accompaniment to Imogen Cooper in Mozart's K 503, with the English Chamber Orchestra.
2) BBC Proms: Stravinsky's 'Pulcinella' and Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony no.1, with the London Sinfonietta.
3) BBC Roundhouse Proms: Lutyens' 'And Suddenly it's Evening', with London Sinfonietta.
4) Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment: Mozart's 'Idomeneo' .

After all these performances I felt that Simon Rattle was the conductor that I most enjoyed playing for, after Daniel Barenboim, David Atherton, Elgar Howarth and the deceased Barbirolli, and Horenstein.

He is very popular with orchestral musicians . At Glyndebourne I was told he would let two members of some sections leave the pit to watch the rehearsal so they could get a feel for the production- that went down very well.

[jayne lee wilson]

With respect to which: those of SR's recordings I've spent time with (various Mahler and Bruckner, for example) have usually impressed me at first and then paled with repeated acquaintance, so "taking time" can work both ways. But of course he always deserves a listen - I think Makropoulos has it right - I did spend the only free evening of one of my London visits at one of his concerts. So let's not confuse lèse-majesté with informed and selective criticism please!

I admit however that my opinion is somewhat coloured by his somewhat incurious attitude towards contemporary composition.

He has done Turnage, Kyburz (Noesis), Adès and Haas (In Vain) of course, others too if you peer at his DCH Concert archive.....but I guess that's not what you're looking for or not nearly enough of it......so it goes...

Anyway, my Brucknerian friend, what about that LSO 6th? (Fascinating alongside the Dausgaard too...)....

[Petrushka]

I first saw Rattle in 1987 with the CBSO (Berlioz Ov Beatrice & Benedict, Britten Sinfonia da Requiem and Mahler 1) and have attended scores of Rattle concerts since then in Birmingham and London with the CBSO, BPO and VPO and there has rarely been a duff one amongst them. However, I'm in no doubt that his Birmingham years were his finest with some fantastic programmes, particularly in the Towards the Millennium series. Foolish to have ever expected it, I know, but I do wish he'd stayed at Birmingham much as I wish Haitink had stayed at the Concertgebouw.

Whoever said that when you meet him Rattle is looking behind you to see if there is someone more interesting could not be more wrong. I've met him twice post-concert, he's extremely approachable, you can ask him anything and you'll get a proper answer, not some guff to fob you off. He's anything but the 'big maestro'.