The 2020 Survey of Classical Music on Radio 3

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  • Ein Heldenleben
    Full Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 6112

    #61
    Originally posted by french frank View Post
    Funnily enough, I, as a superannuated medieval French teacher, was under the erroneous impression that the 'cheminée' here was a noun formed from the verb cheminer, (rather like allée and chaussée), meaning something like K. René's Pathway - where he liked to ride, I fondly imagined . I'm still not sure whether it simply refers to the hearth or chimney in his castle or whether it's connected with 'se chauffer à la cheminée du roi René' which sort of means sunbathing, I think - warming oneself in the sunshine.

    Never too late to learn if anyone knows better!
    This is the wiki ref I read -
    The title of the piece can be found in a nineteenth-century short story on "le bon roi René" and courtly love, "Le premier bouquet de fleurs d'oranger," written by Louis Lurine for the literary journal L'Écho des feuilletons, published in 1853; the journal is a collection of anecdotes and legends, of which the provençal saying "se chauffer à la cheminée du roi René" is one.[3]

    Comment

    • french frank
      Administrator/Moderator
      • Feb 2007
      • 29541

      #62
      Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
      This is the wiki ref I read -
      The title of the piece can be found in a nineteenth-century short story on "le bon roi René" and courtly love, "Le premier bouquet de fleurs d'oranger," written by Louis Lurine for the literary journal L'Écho des feuilletons, published in 1853; the journal is a collection of anecdotes and legends, of which the provençal saying "se chauffer à la cheminée du roi René" is one.[3]
      Signification Se chauffer au soleil Origine de l’expression «  se chauffer à la cheminée  du roi René » Expression proverbiale provençale qui puise ses origines dans la vie de René, roi de Sicile et Comte d’Anjou et de Provence. Toutefois, dès qu’il dut renoncer par la force à la couronne de Sicile, il rentra pour gouverner […]

      = Se chauffer au soleil

      Se chauffer à la cheminée du roi René. Se chauffer aux rayons du soleil. Origine, signification. Dictionnaire proverbes, expressions populaires, d'autrefois et d'aujourd'hui, proverbes d'usage, expressions usitées. Expressions proverbiales. Maximes, expressions insolites, langage de la vie quotidienne. Origine et significations d'expressions usuelles. Richesses de la langue française

      se chauffer aux rayons du soleil

      That seems to be the modern meaning, and I can't say that the music conjures up a medieval castle interior to me.

      Just thought - I was mixing up cheminée with chevauchée, which does mean a ride. Been a long time …
      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

      Comment

      • Belgrove
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 904

        #63
        Originally posted by french frank View Post

        ... Never too late to learn if anyone knows better!
        According to the notes accompanying the Athena Ensemble recording:

        ‘In the fifteenth century the most famous of the Troubadour Courts - the so called Courts of Love - was that of René d’Anjou, Comte de Provence. Much admired and respected, he was popularly known as Le roi René. The court was situated at Aix-en-Provence and a short distance away was a favourite spot of King René’s. This was a natural shelter and sun-trap; here King René and his courtiers could relax in the windless open air. It has existed to this day, and is now a popular picnic spot. The local name for the place is still ‘La Cheminée du roi René’.

        Despite a few visits to the area, I’ve never bothered to seek out the site.

        Comment

        • french frank
          Administrator/Moderator
          • Feb 2007
          • 29541

          #64
          Originally posted by Belgrove View Post
          Despite a few visits to the area, I’ve never bothered to seek out the site.
          That's a pity. You'd probably have found a little kiosk selling King René souvenirs. Sounds a bit like the story of the grave of Dickens's Little Nell in Tong churchyard, Shropshire, a great tourist attraction and a nice little earner for one of the vergers in the early 20th-c.

          Thinking about the music, it suggests to me the simple pastoral life which René was traditionally said to enjoy, and the warm sunshine of late spring - rather than winter huddled close to the fireplace.
          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

          Comment

          • Edgy 2
            Guest
            • Jan 2019
            • 2035

            #65
            Originally posted by Suffolkcoastal View Post
            Below are the figures for complete broadcasts of symphonies/sinfoniettas/sinfonias for 2020. The total number is the lowest since I started recording these figures in 2011.

            The most broadcast symphonies were
            Beethoven No 7 with 22 complete broadcasts
            Beethoven No 3 with 18 complete broadcasts
            Mozart No 40 & Prokofiev No 1 both with 13 complete broadcasts
            Beethoven No 1, Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique, Dvorak No 7, all with 12 complete broadcasts.
            Beethoven No 5, Mahler No 4 & Shostakovich No 5, all with 11 complete broadcasts
            Beethoven Nos 2 & 6, Bruckner No 6, Mozart No 41, all with 10 complete broadcasts
            and yet

            Myaskovsky 1
            Weinberg 1
            Rubbra 1
            Ivanovs 0
            Simpson 0
            Hoddinott 0
            Daniel Jones 0
            David Matthews 0

            etc
            “Music is the best means we have of digesting time." — Igor Stravinsky

            Comment

            • Leinster Lass
              Banned
              • Oct 2020
              • 1099

              #66
              Originally posted by Edgy 2 View Post
              and yet

              Myaskovsky 1
              Weinberg 1
              Rubbra 1
              Ivanovs 0
              Simpson 0
              Hoddinott 0
              Daniel Jones 0
              David Matthews 0

              etc
              Any chance of us ignoramuses (ignorami?) finding out the name of the Milhaud piece that's played 300 - or is it 350? - times a year?

              Comment

              • Bryn
                Banned
                • Mar 2007
                • 24688

                #67
                Originally posted by Leinster Lass View Post
                Any chance of us ignoramuses (ignorami?) finding out the name of the Milhaud piece that's played 300 - or is it 350? - times a year?
                See #56 et seq.

                Comment

                • Leinster Lass
                  Banned
                  • Oct 2020
                  • 1099

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                  See #56 et seq.
                  The programme in question being ....? It's obviously not the music that introduces 'Through The Night', as that's played every 2 hours, which adds up to ... well, lots more than 300 or 350 a year.
                  Last edited by Leinster Lass; 05-01-21, 00:41.

                  Comment

                  • Suffolkcoastal
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 3285

                    #69
                    Fortunately, or unfortunately for poor Milhaud. programme I don't include programme 'signature tunes' in the figures

                    Edgy's symphony comments have remined me that I've been surveying the symphonies/sinfonias/sinfoniettas played on R3 (not including chunks in this case) for 10 years. So below are the figures for the last 10 years! Strange how Haydn's total has worked out!

                    F J HAYDN 1000
                    MOZART W A 890
                    BEETHOVEN 885
                    SIBELIUS 495
                    MAHLER 420
                    SCHUBERT 410
                    MENDELSSOHN 402
                    TCHAIKOVSKY 384
                    DVORAK 353
                    BRAHMS 340
                    SHOSTAKOVICH 302
                    PROKOFIEV 279
                    SCHUMANN 265
                    BACH CPE 257
                    BRUCKNER 243
                    VAUGHAN WILLIAMS 187
                    NIELSEN 174
                    BERLIOZ 143
                    ABEL 141
                    RACHMANINOV 116
                    STRAVINSKY 108
                    ELGAR 99
                    BOYCE 90
                    BRITTEN 82
                    MARTINU 66
                    SAINT-SAENS 66
                    BACH J C 63
                    STRAUSS R 57
                    KRAUS 53
                    SALIERI 51
                    M HAYDN 50
                    WALTON 50
                    SVENDSEN 48
                    BIZET 45
                    BORODIN 45
                    JANACEK 45
                    JIRANEK 43
                    SCRIABIN 43
                    WEBER 34
                    SAMMARTINI 33
                    LUTOSLAWSKI 29
                    TIPPETT 29
                    FRANCK 28
                    GILSON 28
                    ROMAN 28
                    BACH W F 26
                    BANTOCK 26
                    HERSCHEL 26
                    GOSSEC 25
                    HACZEWSKI 25
                    SCHOENBERG 25
                    VANHAL 25
                    ARNOLD 24
                    MALDERE 24
                    COPLAND 22
                    SAINT-GEORGES 22
                    SZYMANOWSKI 22
                    WANSKI 22
                    CHAUSSON 21
                    DITTERSDORF 21
                    FODOR 21
                    HINDEMITH 21
                    IVES 21
                    SOLNITZ 21
                    SORKOCEVIC 21
                    BACH JCF 20
                    BOCCHERINI 20
                    MANTZAROS 20
                    MESSIAEN 20
                    LISZT 19
                    MOYZES 19
                    MEHUL 18
                    ZEMLINSKY 18
                    BRUCH 16
                    DAVIES P MAXWELL 16
                    GOUNOD 16
                    KLAMI 16
                    KORNGOLD 16
                    KUNZEN 16
                    MALISZEWSKI 16
                    TARTINI 16
                    BERWALD 15
                    CANNABICH 15
                    HARRIS ROY 15
                    MANFREDINI 15
                    MOZART L 15
                    MYSLIVECEK 15
                    NAUMANN 15
                    REICHA 15
                    STAMITZ J 15
                    TANAYEV 15
                    ANTHEIL 14
                    BERNSTEIN 14
                    KNUSSEN 14
                    SCIGALSKI 14
                    SULLIVAN 14
                    TOUCHEMOULIN 14
                    HALVORSEN 13
                    MATTHEWS D 13
                    POULENC 13
                    ROSETTI 13
                    ADAMS 12
                    BERIO 12
                    GLUCK 12
                    GORECKI 12
                    MARQUES Y GARCIA 12
                    MEDER J G 12
                    PARRY 12
                    ROUSSEL 12
                    ARRIAGA 11
                    EYBLER 11
                    LANGGAARD 11
                    PANUFNIK 11
                    ALBINONI 10
                    BACEWICZ 10
                    ELSNER 10
                    ENGEL 10
                    GLAZUNOV 10
                    GLINKA 10
                    NORGARD 10
                    PART 10
                    BAX 9
                    JONES D 9
                    MACMILLAN 9
                    MIASKOVSKY 9
                    PENDERECKI 9
                    SCHMIDT 9
                    STENHAMMAR 9
                    SUMERA 9
                    WEYSE 9
                    WIENIAWSKI J 9
                    BRIAN 8
                    DOBRZYNSKI 8
                    DUTTILEUX 8
                    FARRENC 8
                    GLASS P 8
                    GRIEG 8
                    HARTMANN K A 8
                    LAJTHA 8
                    MOERAN 8
                    RIMSKY-KORSAKOV 8
                    RONTGEN 8
                    STILL W G 8
                    ALWYN 7
                    ARNE 7
                    BENNETT R ROD 7
                    BENTZON 7
                    CHAVEZ 7
                    CLEMENTI 7
                    NOSKOWSKI 7
                    SUK 7
                    TORELLI 7
                    VIVALDI 7
                    WAGENSEIL 7
                    WEILL 7
                    WESLEY S 7
                    ANDRICU 6
                    DONIZETTI 6
                    GIPPS 6
                    HONEGGER 6
                    PRICE F 6
                    SCARLATTI D 6
                    SCHRECKER 6
                    SUCHON 6
                    VAINBERG/WEINBERG 6
                    VERMEULEN 6
                    VILLA LOBOS 6
                    BARBER 5
                    BEACH 5
                    BRAUNFELS 5
                    CHADWICK 5
                    DEBUSSY 5
                    EBERL 5
                    FILS 5
                    HOOF 5
                    HOVHANESS 5
                    D'INDY 5
                    KASKI 5
                    LIE 5
                    MIELCK 5
                    ODAK 5
                    PEJACEVIC 5
                    SCHUMAN 5
                    SUOLAHTI 5
                    TUBIN 5
                    USTVOLSKAYA 5
                    WEBERN 5
                    ARENSKY 4
                    BEN HAIM P 4
                    BLISS 4
                    BOWEN 4
                    BOYLE I 4
                    DOPPER C 4
                    ENESCU 4
                    HANSON 4
                    HENZE 4
                    HOLST 4
                    MARSH J 4
                    MARTINES M 4
                    MATHIAS 4
                    RAYCHEV 4
                    RUBBRA 4
                    STAMITZ K 4
                    STANFORD 4
                    TELEMANN 4
                    WAGNER 4
                    YIU R 4
                    ANDERSON J 3
                    BAJAMONTI 3
                    BALAKIREV 3
                    BECK F I 3
                    BLODEK 3
                    CASELLA 3
                    CHERUBINI 3
                    COATES G 3
                    COWELL 3
                    DOHNANYI 3
                    DUKAS 3
                    GADE 3
                    GUILMANT 3
                    HOLMBOE 3
                    KAJANUS 3
                    KALLINIKOV 3
                    KARLOWICZ 3
                    KOZELUCH 3
                    MILFORD 3
                    PAPANDOPOLU 3
                    PEIRERA 3
                    PETTERSSON A 3
                    RICHTER F 3
                    SIXTA 3
                    SMITH A M 3
                    VORISEK 3
                    WILLAN H 3
                    WIREN 3
                    ZIMMERMANN B A 3
                    ALFVEN 2
                    ATTERBERG 2
                    AUERBACH 2
                    BAINTON 2
                    BEAMISH 2
                    BRESCIANELLO 2
                    BRUN F 2
                    BRUNT K 2
                    CHAGRIN 2
                    DAMASE 2
                    DENISOV 2
                    EDWARDS R 2
                    EISLER 2
                    FASCH 2
                    GAL 2
                    GLIERE 2
                    GOEHR A 2
                    GOTTSCHALK 2
                    GRAUN 2
                    GUARNIERI 2
                    GYROWETZ 2
                    HEROLD 2
                    HODDINOTT 2
                    IVANCIC 2
                    JACKSON G 2
                    JADASSOHN 2
                    KEAL M 2
                    KOECHLIN 2
                    LARCHER 2
                    LILBURN 2
                    MACONCHY 2
                    MCCABE 2
                    MAGNARD 2
                    MAZZOLI M 2
                    MELARTIN 2
                    MONN 2
                    NORMAN L 2
                    OSTRCIL 2
                    PARAC 2
                    PFITZNER 2
                    PICKARD 2
                    PISTON 2
                    PORTA 2
                    RAFF 2
                    RAUTAVAARA 2
                    RUFINATSCHA 2
                    SCHMITT F 2
                    SCHNITTKE 2
                    STOJOWSKI 2
                    SUSSMAYR 2
                    WATKINS H 2
                    WILLIAMS G 2
                    WILLIAMSON 2
                    ALMEIDA 1
                    ASPELMAYR 1
                    BACH J CHRISTOPH 1
                    BEDFORD D 1
                    BLOCH 1
                    BRIXI 1
                    BRUSA E 1
                    BURGESS A 1
                    CARTER E 1
                    COOKE A 1
                    COWEN F 1
                    CRANE L 1
                    CROSSE 1
                    DALL'OGLIO 1
                    DELLO JOIO 1
                    DEMACHY 1
                    DIEREN B VAN 1
                    DUMONT 1
                    DUN T 1
                    DUSSEK 1
                    ELCOCK S 1
                    ELIASSON 1
                    FIBICH 1
                    FLETCHER P 1
                    FOERSTER J F 1
                    FOSS 1
                    FREDERICK THE GREAT 1
                    FUX 1
                    GERHARD 1
                    GOLDMARK 1
                    GOTHE N 1
                    GOULD M 1
                    GREGSON 1
                    GUDMUNDSEN-HOLMGREEN 1
                    GUNNING 1
                    HAMILTON I 1
                    HARRISON L 1
                    HARTY 1
                    HASSE 1
                    HILL A 1
                    HOFFMANN E T A 1
                    HOFFMEISTER 1
                    HOLMES A 1
                    HYDE T 1
                    IVANOVS 1
                    JACKSON M 1
                    JOLIVET 1
                    JOMMELLI 1
                    JOUBERT 1
                    JUON 1
                    KASHPEROVA 1
                    KELEMEN 1
                    KETTING 1
                    KHACHATURIAN 1
                    KREK 1
                    KURPINSKI 1
                    LAMOND 1
                    LANDOWSKI 1
                    LEIGHTON 1
                    LINEK 1
                    LIPINSKI 1
                    LLOYD G 1
                    LYAPUNOV 1
                    MACRAE 1
                    MADETOJA 1
                    MCEWEN 1
                    MEALOR P 1
                    METCALF J 1
                    MONTSALVATGE 1
                    MONZA 1
                    NENOV 1
                    NORDGREN 1
                    PHILLIPS M 1
                    PICHL 1
                    PIJPER 1
                    PLEYEL 1
                    PONS J 1
                    POPOV 1
                    PORSILE 1
                    POTTER A J 1
                    POTTER C 1
                    RANGSTROM 1
                    RAWSTHORNE 1
                    RIES 1
                    ROSSINI 1
                    ROTT 1
                    ROUSE 1
                    SAWYERS P 1
                    SCARLETTI S 1
                    SCHEIBE 1
                    SCHULLER G 1
                    SCHULTZE 1
                    SCOTT C 1
                    SIERRA A 1
                    SILVESTROV 1
                    SIMPSON R 1
                    SORENSEN B 1
                    STEVENS B G 1
                    STOKOWSKI 1
                    SWERTS 1
                    TAYLOR M 1
                    TCHAIKOVSKY B 1
                    THOMPSON R 1
                    TOCH 1
                    TURINA 1
                    TVEITT 1
                    VEALE 1
                    VEICHTNER 1
                    VINE C 1
                    VOGEL 1
                    VOGLER 1
                    VOLANS 1
                    WALFORD-DAVIES 1
                    WALKER G 1
                    WALLACE W 1
                    WALPURGIS 1
                    WESLEY S S 1
                    WETZ 1
                    WIDOR 1
                    WOESTIJNE 1
                    WOLPE K 1
                    ZELJENKA 1
                    ZWILICH 1

                    Comment

                    • Ein Heldenleben
                      Full Member
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 6112

                      #70
                      Thanks again for the sterling work . I see Abel has an average of 14 symphonies a year , I have never heard a symphony by him even though I listen to R3 from 9-9.30 most days ( with a few gaps) . It might be more accurate to say I have never heard a symphony by him and remembered having done so. Is his work any good? He gets more performances than Rachmaninov or Elgar (though with the advantage of more works) so some one must like him .

                      Comment

                      • antongould
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 8681

                        #71
                        Originally posted by Leinster Lass View Post
                        Any chance of us ignoramuses (ignorami?) finding out the name of the Milhaud piece that's played 300 - or is it 350? - times a year?

                        Scaramouche ...... This Classical Life

                        Comment

                        • Leinster Lass
                          Banned
                          • Oct 2020
                          • 1099

                          #72
                          Originally posted by antongould View Post
                          Scaramouche ...... This Classical Life
                          Thank you! (I've never listened to it, hence my higgerance).
                          Last edited by Leinster Lass; 05-01-21, 12:51.

                          Comment

                          • Suffolkcoastal
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 3285

                            #73
                            Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
                            Thanks again for the sterling work . I see Abel has an average of 14 symphonies a year , I have never heard a symphony by him even though I listen to R3 from 9-9.30 most days ( with a few gaps) . It might be more accurate to say I have never heard a symphony by him and remembered having done so. Is his work any good? He gets more performances than Rachmaninov or Elgar (though with the advantage of more works) so some one must like him .
                            Karl Friedrich Abel - (1723-1787). He was resident in London from the end of the 1750s and was a close friend of Johann Christian Bach, who came to London a few years later. His symphonies are quite attractive and only around 10-15 minutes in length. Many of the broadcasts of his symphonies occur on Through the Night where one of two regularly crop up every few weeks or so.

                            Comment

                            • Ein Heldenleben
                              Full Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 6112

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Suffolkcoastal View Post
                              Karl Friedrich Abel - (1723-1787). He was resident in London from the end of the 1750s and was a close friend of Johann Christian Bach, who came to London a few years later. His symphonies are quite attractive and only around 10-15 minutes in length. Many of the broadcasts of his symphonies occur on Through the Night where one of two regularly crop up every few weeks or so.
                              Thanks - that would explain why I haven’t heard that many . A ten minute ‘symphony’ - perfect for a magazine programme but does it contravene the trade descriptions act?

                              Comment

                              • Keraulophone
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 1928

                                #75
                                #64 - Still, W G - the highest ranked composer I’d never heard of.

                                Well done Mr Still: William Grant Still Jr., 11/5/1895 – 3/12/1978. 5 symphonies, 9 operas, nearly 200 works in all. A remarkable story.

                                Comment

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