The 2020 Survey of Classical Music on Radio 3

[antongould]

By ‘eck ff that’s quick with sums!

It wouldn’t surprise me if my suggestion of ‘Summertime’ still qualifies!

No it doesn’t ........ at least by my definition of spelt exactly the same way ...... but if you look at the various different entries there are 14 .... so a no score draw cloughers ........

[Roslynmuse]

No Roussel symphonies, no Magnard symphonies, only one of Dutilleux's. The Koechlin was a repeat of the Seven Stars. Franck twice, Chausson and Messiaen's Turangalilia once, no Dukas or Lalo, and, as already remarked, only three Saint-Saens broadcasts, presumably all of No 3. I don't begrudge anyone their hour in the sun, but, much as I love Symphonie Fantastique, I would be willing to sacrifice a couple of broadcasts of that (or one of the four Bizet C majors) for some of the less frequesntly heard French symphonic rep. Not that it works that way, of course.

And 22 Beethoven 7s?

[cloughie]

No it doesn’t ........ at least by my definition of spelt exactly the same way ...... but if you look at the various different entries there are 14 .... so a no score draw cloughers ........

I won’t risk going to penalties!

[Ein Heldenleben]

No Roussel symphonies, no Magnard symphonies, only one of Dutilleux's. The Koechlin was a repeat of the Seven Stars. Franck twice, Chausson and Messiaen's Turangalilia once, no Dukas or Lalo, and, as already remarked, only three Saint-Saens broadcasts, presumably all of No 3. I don't begrudge anyone their hour in the sun, but, much as I love Symphonie Fantastique, I would be willing to sacrifice a couple of broadcasts of that (or one of the four Bizet C majors) for some of the less frequesntly heard French symphonic rep. Not that it works that way, of course.
And 22 Beethoven 7s?

That symphony list is a very interesting example of the groupthink that can overtake any organisation . First of all it’s Beethoven’s anniversary so let’s go Ludwig Crazy - let’s not overdo the 5th or Eroica . What else is good ? Oh yeah the 7th. What would be really out there and creative would be to say that no symphony will have more than 10 plays a year . The Messiaen is very regularly excerpted - mind you so is the A minor movt of the 7th.
Ps 10 outings of Bruckner 6 seems a bit bizarre - over a third of all the symphonies played!

[gurnemanz]

Great list, thanks sfc.

Good to see 11 (on a quick count) female composers in the list, which is probably the most ever?

I echo Heldenleben's disappointment at the comparatively poor showing of Palestrina - his lowest ever total (one of only three in this category) - and also note the absence of Lassus and Victoria. All played less often than Kreisler, Hahn and Max Richter...

Yes but I'm please to see mélodie meister, Reynaldo Hahn, achieve an asterisk with a record high position.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes but I'm please to see mélodie meister, Reynaldo Hahn, achieve an asterisk with a record high position.

It’s very deceptive , Gurnemanz , that Hahn list will be largely be A Chloris and that lovely bacarolle with the aah bit in it the name of which escapes me for the moment. Nothing wrong with that but it’s always the same pieces!

[Roslynmuse]

It’s very deceptive , Gurnemanz , that Hahn list will be largely be A Chloris and that lovely bacarolle with the aah bit in it the name of which escapes me for the moment. Nothing wrong with that but it’s always the same pieces!

Presumably La barcheta from Venezia - so not a mélodie at all by the strictest definition of the term!

I wonder when the last mélodie of, say, Déodat de Séverac was broadcast. Les hiboux is a masterpiece, up there with the best of Duparc, Chausson, Fauré, Debussy, Caplet, Ravel, Roussel, Poulenc. All of those composers, like Hahn, are probably represented only by a small percentage of their songs - Duparc, who was a special case, aside. Recitalists may not programme them much, but there are many recordings out there to tap into.

[antongould]

Presumably La barcheta from Venezia - so not a mélodie at all by the strictest definition of the term!

I wonder when the last mélodie of, say, Déodat de Séverac was broadcast. Les hiboux is a masterpiece, up there with the best of Duparc, Chausson, Fauré, Debussy, Caplet, Ravel, Roussel, Poulenc. All of those composers, like Hahn, are probably represented only by a small percentage of their songs - Duparc, who was a special case, aside. Recitalists may not programme them much, but there are many recordings out there to tap into.

See below in my usual appalling format the Hahn pieces played with the number of plays ........ you will see how the same piece is often spelt/recorded in different ways ........



A Chloris
14
La Barcheta (Venezia)
6
L'heure exquise
6
A Chloris for voice and piano
2
L' Enamouree
2
The Last Waltz
2
À Chloris
1
A Chloris (arr. Tom Poster for bassoon & string quartet)
1
Chantantes sur un air ancien
1
'Che pecà', from Venezia
1
Douloureuse rêverie dans un bois de sapins (Le Rossignol éperdu)
1
Fetes Galantes
1
Fêtes galantes
1
La Barcheta
1
La barcheta (Venezia 'Chansons en dialecte vénitien')
1
La dernière valse
1
Le Printemps
1
L'enamouree
1
Les étoiles
1
Les rêveries du Prince Églantine
1
L'heure exquise (Chansons grises)
1
L'île du rêve (scenes 1-7)
1
L'île du rêve (The Island of Dreams)
1
Lydé
1
Néère
1
Premières valses: La Feuille; Valse Noble; Ninette
1
Quand Je Fus Pris Au Pavillon
1
Romance in A major
1
Si mes vers avaient des ailes
1
Sopra l'acqua indormenzada (Venezia)
1
String Quartet No. 2 in F Major: IV. Très vite
1
String Quartet no.2 in F Major (1st mvt)
1
Trois jours de vendange
1
Une Revue: La Dernière Valse
1
Venezia
1
Violin concerto ii: Chant d'amour
1
Venezia che peca
2

[Roslynmuse]

See below in my usual appalling format the Hahn pieces played with the number of plays ........ you will see how the same piece is often spelt/recorded in different ways ........

Thanks for this - as had been predicted A Chloris heads the list. Strange that what used to be Hahn's 'signature' song, Si mes vers..., is down to just one airing.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Thanks for this - as had been predicted A Chloris heads the list. Strange that what used to be Hahn's 'signature' song, Si mes vers..., is down to just one airing.

Thanks Anton and Andrew for all the work on this - invaluable.
Thanks Roslynmuse for jogging my memory on Hahn's (second ) most famous song. Irritating because I heard it on In Tune only a couple of weeks ago and then gone to the score to check the chord sequence on that lovely aah bit as I described it.

It all goes to show that unfortunately some composers are being represented as one or two hit wonders when they offer so much more. Time to widen the net ..
On a plus note they've just played on Essential classics

Tomás Luis de Victoria
Ave Maria a 8
Choir: London Oratory Schola Cantorum. Conductor: Charles Cole.
HYPERION.

TLdeV barely featured last year . I wonder whether Andrew's list is already having an impact.?

[Suffolkcoastal]

Actually Victoria has had a very up & down ride these past 12 years. His 2020 total was 47. His yearly totals from 2009 are below:

36 41 151 27 62 31 27 40 47 47 64 47

[gurnemanz]

See below in my usual appalling format the Hahn pieces played with the number of plays ........ you will see how the same piece is often spelt/recorded in different ways ........

A Chloris
14
La Barcheta (Venezia)
6
L'heure exquise
6
...

Thanks from me also for that list. The bias towards a few songs is even more extreme than I might have predicted.

Briefly donning my anorak I note that I have about 250 song recordings on various albums (a large number on the recent Tassis Christoyannis/Jeff Cohen complete set from Bru Zane and the Hyperion twofer). Of recordings of the same song in my collection the most frequent is L'heure exquise with nine, followed by D'une prison with eight. The ubiquitous À Chloris comes in with a mere five. About 60 appear only once, including La Barcheta (Venezia).

The man himself

[Ein Heldenleben]

Actually Victoria has had a very up & down ride these past 12 years. His 2020 total was 47. His yearly totals from 2009 are below:

36 41 151 27 62 31 27 40 47 47 64 47

He died in 1611 so 2011 would have been the 400th anniversary of his death . So I guess we’ll have to wait till 2048 for the 500th anniversary of his birth. And that’s the other problem - the obsession with anniversaries . It’s just so lazy ...as lazy as thinking Reynaldo Hahn - better play A Chloris . Victoria wasn’t any worse a composer in 2012 when he only got 27 outings . It’s ridiculous...

[Suffolkcoastal]

Composer anniversaries on R3 are like most things on the station, very hit and miss, depending if the composer concerned is 'in favour' with programming teams or not. There is a tendency to go with the obvious most of the time too, which I can only put down to R3 staff not having the knowledge or will/can be bothered to do the necessary research and therefore go for the easy option. There are quite a number of composer anniversaries that have been largely ignored in recent years Hindemith being one glaring example. As mentioned in my introduction, Bruch did worse in his 2020 anniversary than he did in 2019.
This year we have of course Arnold, Saint-Saens and Stravinsky. I fully expect plenty of Carnival of the Animals, Organ Symphony, Danse Macabre & that ghastly Tarentelle, as well as plenty of Firebirds, Petroushkas and Rites of Spring. I wonder how many broadcasts they'll be of Threni, Canticum Sacrum or The Flood?

[Serial_Apologist]

Composer anniversaries on R3 are like most things on the station, very hit and miss, depending if the composer concerned is 'in favour' with programming teams or not. There is a tendency to go with the obvious most of the time too, which I can only put down to R3 staff not having the knowledge or will/can be bothered to do the necessary research and therefore go for the easy option. There are quite a number of composer anniversaries that have been largely ignored in recent years Hindemith being one glaring example. As mentioned in my introduction, Bruch did worse in his 2020 anniversary than he did in 2019.
This year we have of course Arnold, Saint-Saens and Stravinsky. I fully expect plenty of Carnival of the Animals, Organ Symphony, Danse Macabre & that ghastly Tarentelle, as well as plenty of Firebirds, Petroushkas and Rites of Spring. I wonder how many broadcasts they'll be of Threni, Canticum Sacrum or The Flood?

The Flood could celebrate climate change, all in one, at the same time!