Elgar

[DracoM]

Tried all my life to understand why he is so esteemed. Still do NOT get it.
Can a fan really explain to me why?
Should I try harder?

[cloughie]

Tried all my life to understand why he is so esteemed. Still do NOT get it.
Can a fan really explain to me why?
Should I try harder?

No - if he’s not got you by now I doubt he will - my addiction goes back to my teenage years but then I had the advantage of Barbirolli and the Halle concerts. Just listen to the 2nd and 3rd movements of Symphony 1 and that bridge from onevto the other and if you’re not moved then Elgar is never going to be for you.

[Petrushka]

Puzzled at what there is to 'get'. I remember hearing the Symphony No 1 for the first time in 1975 (LPO/Solti recording) and it completely blew me away.

I think it's important to get away from the so-called 'Englishness' of so much of Elgar and to listen to him as a contemporary of Wagner, Mahler, Strauss, Bruckner and Dvorak and part of that same tradition. Elgar's way with the countless transformations of his 'motto' theme in the 1st Symphony isn't so hard to grasp even on a first hearing and how could you possibly fail to be moved by the glorious third movement?

Elgar's skill as an orchestrator is remarkable considering he was entirely self-taught and there is much to admire in that aspect alone.

I know you like Parsifal so Gerontius shouldn't be that much of a problem for you.

Give Elgar another go!

[LeMartinPecheur]

Give Elgar another go!

And forget the imperialist label. Elgar loved ceremonial: the title of Pomp and Circumstance says just that. No warfare and almost no jingoism. Much, much to enjoy as per Pet's #3.

[DracoM]

'Gerontius' .....oh dear, oh dear............THAT was the both the first major piece encountered, and the piece that really turned me off.
Sung it X-times from age 12 onwards to now, and still writhe under it's IMO long-winded, preternaturally DULL, but laid-on-with-a trowel rhetorical religiosity.

'Take me away...'
....................Yes, please!

[Petrushka]

'Gerontius' .....oh dear, oh dear............THAT was the both the first major piece encountered, and the piece that really turned me off.
Sung it X-times from age 12 onwards to now, and still writhe under it's IMO long-winded, preternaturally DULL, but laid-on-with-a trowel rhetorical religiosity.

'Take me away...'
....................Yes, please!

I take it at face value while at the same time admiring Elgar's wonderful orchestration and leitmotif technique. The text is what it is but I love Gerontius anyway!

[gurnemanz]

'Gerontius' .....oh dear, oh dear............THAT was the both the first major piece encountered, and the piece that really turned me off.
Sung it X-times from age 12 onwards to now, and still writhe under it's IMO long-winded, preternaturally DULL, but laid-on-with-a trowel rhetorical religiosity.

'Take me away...'
....................Yes, please!

I echo Draco on Gerontius, one piece I really dislike and I am a Parsifal addict. I will happily listen to the Symphonies without calling them favourites. I like Enigmas, even Bernstein! And enjoyed it as a ballet at ROH. I was converted to the Violin Concerto only recently when I heard it live for the first time a couple of years ago with Nicola Benedetti in Bath where she gave her first live performance. I enjoy some vocal pieces. Our choir has done several, such as Longfellow's As Torrents in Summer. I like some of the lesser known chamber works, eg Nigel Kennedy's first disc which included the Violin Sonata and the Magginis on Naxos with Str Qtt and Piano quintet. Janet Baker in Sea Pictures ..... Love In the South.

[vibratoforever]

No - if he’s not got you by now I doubt he will - my addiction goes back to my teenage years but then I had the advantage of Barbirolli and the Halle concerts. Just listen to the 2nd and 3rd movements of Symphony 1 and that bridge from onevto the other and if you’re not moved then Elgar is never going to be for you.

I would add to that by saying if hearing the Larghetto of Symphony No. 2 or Introduction and Allegro under Barbirolli leaves you you unmoved then the game is up.

[LMcD]

No - if he’s not got you by now I doubt he will - my addiction goes back to my teenage years but then I had the advantage of Barbirolli and the Halle concerts. Just listen to the 2nd and 3rd movements of Symphony 1 and that bridge from onevto the other and if you’re not moved then Elgar is never going to be for you.

Agreed! This issue has been previously discussed at length on the 'Elgar' thread in the 'Composers' sub-forum, which which this thread could be merged(?). With his combination of genuine emotion, admirable restraint (e.g. the last movement of the 2nd symphony), and wonderful orchestration skills, Elgar has become more and more important to me with the passage of time. I'm not ashamed to admit that tears are never very far away, especially when the sheer beauty and emotional power of what I'm hearing leads me to reflect on what, as a nation, we seem to be in the process of throwing away. The three great chamber works are perhaps deserving of more attention than they sometimes seem to attract, and the music for wind band is absolutely delightful.

[teamsaint]

Tried all my life to understand why he is so esteemed. Still do NOT get it.
Can a fan really explain to me why?
Should I try harder?

Worth trying Stephen Johnson’s Discovering Music on the two symphonies, I’d suggest. I think they are still available.

[oddoneout]

Tried all my life to understand why he is so esteemed. Still do NOT get it.
Can a fan really explain to me why?
Should I try harder?

No I don't think so. The main thing is that you have tried, rather than dismiss out of hand, and over an extended period of time. I agree with cloughie

if he’s not got you by now I doubt he will

What I find rather sad is when someone takes a position/view on such matters at an early age and never revisits it, since the more of life one experiences the more there is a possibility that those early views might have changed - but without opening that door how would one know? The reverse can happen of course, that early passions can be outgrown.
This isn't a right or wrong issue and, as such not something to agonise over in my opinion. Thank heavens that we not only have differing opinions but that we are, by and large, free to express those differences; how tedious and soul destroying if there was only 'one way'.

[gradus]

Elgar is for me but I've blown hot and cold over the years with him just as I have with Schubert and I have no idea why, presumably my state of mind/emotions slip out of alignment with those of the composer from time to time and I only want to listen to say, Stevie Wonder.

[richardfinegold]

Tried all my life to understand why he is so esteemed. Still do NOT get it.
Can a fan really explain to me why?
Should I try harder?

After Enigma, the Cello Concerto, and of course Pomp and Circumstance, I have tried hard to embrace the rest of his output but I don't like any of it. The admonitions to "forget the Britishness"
are hinting at an issue. Even in this day of globalization it's rare to encounter non British performers in his work. It's redolent of Victorian England at it's most stuffy and pompous, and yes, these may be fighting words here but that is how most people from other places perceive it.

[DracoM]

[cloughie]

After Enigma, the Cello Concerto, and of course Pomp and Circumstance, I have tried hard to embrace the rest of his output but I don't like any of it. The admonitions to "forget the Britishness"
are hinting at an issue. Even in this day of globalization it's rare to encounter non British performers in his work. It's redolent of Victorian England at it's most stuffy and pompous, and yes, these may be fighting words here but that is how most people from other places perceive it.

You mean apart from Haitink, Slatkin, Previn, Sinopoli, Zinman, Sinaisky, Jurowski, Monteux, Mehta, Toscanini, Muti, Barenboim, Solti, Petrenko, Bernstein, Levine, Oramo, Stokowski, Svetlanov, Rozhdestvensky and Dutoit!