Music Lessons

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My first piano teacher got me off to what seemed to be quite a good start. He was the Head of Music in the local secondary modern school. I was 9 years old, but had taught myself to play hymn tunes in octaves before starting actual lessons. I even composed a new tune for one of the hymns - my Op.1.
The teacher ate his evening meal as he shouted instructions, every time I erred from the written note. Although the clatter of cutlery was constant, he was clearly paying attention, for despite being some distance away, he called out any wrong fingerings. I think he may have contributed to my lifelong dislike of music in B flat major. But that’s another story.

I went away to a boarding school and my new teacher sat to my right and gave me full attention at all times. She liked to double my right hand an octave higher at all times. She was very keen on scales and finger exercises, but couldn’t fill me with enthusiasm for either. However, I thrived, and my competitive streak helped me to overtake all the other school pianists, one by one.

My university teacher was a phenomenal pianist. His teacher had been a pupil of Brahms. But he didn’t think it necessary to spend much time on scales, encouraging his students to improve through solving the problems faced in great piano works. I’m not sure that he was right. Being a great pianist doesn’t make you a great teacher.

Oboe lessons? Maybe later...

[Joseph K]

My guessing is that Ornette's approach was pretty instinctive before he came up with the term, which he later "explained", as others have tried to. (See the earlier discussion on The Bored). Timbre, timing and articulation are as equally important as pitch choices, the character of the instrument and its singularity being germane here. This does not apply to the same extent when it comes to playing practice traditions in classical music after standardisation of instrument design and the idea of composer intention being written into scores circumscribed most individuality of expression to details of interpretation - apart from where freedom was permitted for cadenzas in concertos. Come to think of it (off the top of my head), this may have some bearing on why some jazz enthusiasts hold circumscriptively limiting views as to what instruments have a rightful place in the genre hierarchy.

Thanks for the explanation.

One of the impressive aspects of Julian Lage's playing is that he is sensitive to the dynamic + timbral nuances and possibilities of the guitar that quite a few aren't so much.

[Richard Barrett]

My guessing is that Ornette's approach was pretty instinctive before he came up with the term, which he later "explained", as others have tried to.

It's much easier to recognise just by hearing it than it is to explain it. For me it has to do with a blurring of functions between melodic and harmonic elements - the tunes are generally quite uncomplicated because they're the centre around which the whole musical structure is organised, having a comparable function to the changes (I mean the basic root movements underneath whatever extensions and substitutions might be in play) in other forms of jazz.

[Dave2002]

I'm finding even D major (LH upwards) tricky, and am just putting it down to my hands being much less supple than they once were.

From a thumb (1) on D to fourth (4) finger on E, or in the alternative fingering 1 on E and 4 on F sharp, is now something my hand just doesn't like me trying to do, and I seem to stumble every time!

I had to go over to the piano to check that I can do this - which I think I can. Both hands. I thought you were a keyboardist.

However, mrs d never really was, but she liked playing. In the last year she's tried to pick up again, and found she gets a great deal of pain in her wrist, and her hands swell up. She's tried laying up for a while, and also using Ibuprofen hand gel - but I fear that old age and general decrepitude can set in, and make things that used to be fun really quite difficult and painful.

Now I'm trying to thing which are the most rotten scales to have to play on the piano.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm finding even D major (LH upwards) tricky, and am just putting it down to my hands being much less supple than they once were.

From a thumb (1) on D to fourth (4) finger on E, or in the alternative fingering 1 on E and 4 on F sharp, is now something my hand just doesn't like me trying to do, and I seem to stumble every time!

You'll be gratified to know that Dmaj left hand is notorious for being a pain - particularly desecending - wonder why whether that explains the relative lack of piano concerti in D . A couple of tips that were passed on to me by my piano teacher - first - try building finger strength through the easier key of E major.
Some people swear by actually having the music for the scale in front of them - helpful with the fingering : it also seems to help psychologically . Try playing it really slowly and only speed up when you are happy . The ABRSM metronome speeds are pretty demanding . Try playing it in dotted rhythm or in triplets. Finally when you get happy with the result the very first Hanon study for the virtuoso pianist is really good for strengthening the fourth finger - but if you feel any fatigue stop. Hope this helps - you 'll be tackling the Coronation concerto in no time...

[Pulcinella]

Thanks for the advice.

Yes, Dave, but with the emphasis on the past.....I WAS a keyboardist.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've always found sharps less "natural" (ahem) in terms of ease of hand movement than flats.

That’s interesting. But logically, as the fingers of each hand play ‘opposite’ to one another, surely one hand would find flats more comfortable and the other would prefer sharps. But it’s probably all in the mind.
On brass instruments, flats are easier as when you press a valve, it flattens the note.
String players prefer sharp keys, and pressing on a string makes it sharper.

But keyboard instruments have no such bias.

[cloughie]

I'm finding even D major (LH upwards) tricky, and am just putting it down to my hands being much less supple than they once were.

From a thumb (1) on D to fourth (4) finger on E, or in the alternative fingering 1 on E and 4 on F sharp, is now something my hand just doesn't like me trying to do, and I seem to stumble every time!

I’m just trying to get them right with a view to maybe taking Grade 5 at some point in the not to distant future. The tips on here are useful.

[Dave2002]

Thanks for the advice.

Yes, Dave, but with the emphasis on the past.....I WAS a keyboardist.

I doubt that I'd be able to get Grade 5 right now - or maybe ever - but I was just curious to see if I could finger the scale. I doubt that I could play many of the keyboard pieces I tried in the past - and the same, sadly, now applies to my wind instruments.

It's interesting to know the "facts" about D major - isn't one of Haydn's concertos in D? Hob.XVIII:11.
I think there's also a sonata which I used to like - Haydn again.

What is quite interesting is that ascending and descending are different. That is something which I've noticed over the last few months with recorder exercises. I thought that if I could do the ascending exercises with some facility, then the descending ones would also be easy. This turns out not to be true. I do the ascending 3rds, 4ths, etc. and descending equivalents. In some keys these get pretty difficult on a bass recorder.

[Dave2002]

Mozart wrote several piano/keyboard concertos in D major.

3 - K40
5 - K174
16 - K451
26 - K537 (Coronation)

It does indeed seem to be a fairly unusual key for a keyboard concerto - or maybe I've just not looked hard enough.

[rauschwerk]

... one's physical self is being guided by one's ears and through practice physical technique is acquired through finding the most economical way of doing something.

Yes indeed. When I resumed playing in my mid 20s I began for the first time to think seriously about piano tone production and how to achieve it with minimum wasted effort. From either Neuhaus or Sandor I understood that if you prepare a chord and then completely relax the muscles which hold up the forearm, you will play the chord mezzo forte. A quieter dynamic requires only a controlled release of weight.

Then my engineering knowledge led me to apply classical mechanics to the moment when the key hits the bed. It doesn't take much effort to accelerate the key to produce even fortissimo, but then the key bed very briefly exerts considerable force on the key to bring it to rest. At this point, more muscular effort is needed to stop the key rebounding. After that, though, only enough muscular effort is reqiured to hold the key down until its release. For me, understanding this was extremely helpful. I certainly began to find prolonged playing much less tiring for my arm muscles.

[Dave2002]

Yes indeed. When I resumed playing in my mid 20s I began for the first time to think seriously about piano tone production and how to achieve it with minimum wasted effort. From either Neuhaus or Sandor I understood that if you prepare a chord and then completely relax the muscles which hold up the forearm, you will play the chord mezzo forte. A quieter dynamic requires only a controlled release of weight.

Then my engineering knowledge led me to apply classical mechanics to the moment when the key hits the bed. It doesn't take much effort to accelerate the key to produce even fortissimo, but then the key bed very briefly exerts considerable force on the key to bring it to rest. At this point, more muscular effort is needed to stop the key rebounding. After that, though, only enough muscular effort is reqiured to hold the key down until its release. For me, understanding this was extremely helpful. I certainly began to find prolonged playing much less tiring for my arm muscles.

That's interesting - though I don't understand it fully. It sounds as though there are techniques for the piano which are much more effective, yet don't introduce great muscle strain. That might be useful to mrs d - as she might be doing something in her attempts to play which are causing pain. She hasn't had anyone look at her while trying to play for years though. She did ask a former professional pianist friend and he didn't suggest any change to technique, but the use of gels to help with the muscle pain - but maybe a more detailed analysis of one's technique would be helpful too - particularly for people who may be getting pain/swelling from playing.

Another aspect of this might be relevant to newer pianos. I think I mentioned buying an electric piano for miss d as a present. It's nice, but she commented that it's rather quiet. Electric/electronic pianos simulate the action of a regular piano, so I'm not sure if the key pressure sensors respond in the same way as a "real" piano. I suggested "hitting it harder" - and that seems to work, but it would be good to know how to get a louder sound without having to exert a great deal of physical force. For some reason, she also says that with the pedals attached - that model has an optional 3 pedal attachment - it's possible to go louder - I've not checked out why that is yet.

[rauschwerk]

That's interesting - though I don't understand it fully. It sounds as though there are techniques for the piano which are much more effective, yet don't introduce great muscle strain. That might be useful to mrs d - as she might be doing something in her attempts to play which are causing pain. She hasn't had anyone look at her while trying to play for years though. She did ask a former professional pianist friend and he didn't suggest any change to technique, but the use of gels to help with the muscle pain - but maybe a more detailed analysis of one's technique would be helpful too - particularly for people who may be getting pain/swelling from playing.

Another aspect of this might be relevant to newer pianos. I think I mentioned buying an electric piano for miss d as a present. It's nice, but she commented that it's rather quiet. Electric/electronic pianos simulate the action of a regular piano, so I'm not sure if the key pressure sensors respond in the same way as a "real" piano. I suggested "hitting it harder" - and that seems to work, but it would be good to know how to get a louder sound without having to exert a great deal of physical force. For some reason, she also says that with the pedals attached - that model has an optional 3 pedal attachment - it's possible to go louder - I've not checked out why that is yet.

Yes, I agree that when buying a digital piano one needs an instrument that will produce a realistic volume level. Anything less and one will automatically use excessive force, possibly resulting in muscle strain. My old Technics has 120 watts output power and its sound will fill a big hall, but some models have much less, and cannot sound as loud as a real piano.

[Pulcinella]

Yes, I agree that when buying a digital piano one needs an instrument that will produce a realistic volume level. Anything less and one will automatically use excessive force, possibly resulting in muscle strain. My old Technics has 120 watts output power and its sound will fill a big hall, but some models have much less, and cannot sound as loud as a real piano.

Mine has a handy volume control knob.
I'm a little surprised that from these comments it seems not to be a standard feature on electric/electronic pianos.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Mozart wrote several piano/keyboard concertos in D major.

3 - K40
5 - K174
16 - K451
26 - K537 (Coronation)

It does indeed seem to be a fairly unusual key for a keyboard concerto - or maybe I've just not looked hard enough.

Yes Mozart is the exception - he also wrote a very fine D maj sonata. I think he liked D major scales - in fact I think he loved scales fullstop . His piano figurations although they look simple on the page are often very tricky to get your fingers round as Tom Service recently proved in his rendition of the opening theme of the B flat concerto. You really have to work on the fingering , stick to it , and not try and busk it. He loved those step ascent scales e.g. DCEDFEGFAGBAC that are very fiddly. In his piano book Jeremy Siepmann contends that Mozart probaly never played a wrong note - an accolade he extends to Pollini as well.