Music Lessons

[rauschwerk]

Mine has a handy volume control knob.
I'm a little surprised that from these comments it seems not to be a standard feature on electric/electronic pianos.

Oh, mine has a volume control too. Surely they all do? I keep mine at a level which gives the volume level of a 'proper' piano. One of the most frustrating concerts I have ever done was accompanying a choir on a good digital piano. When the conductor wanted me to play more quietly he would adjust the volume control instead of gesturing to me. By the end of the evening I was bashing hell out of the instrument most of the time! Never again.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Oh, mine has a volume control too. Surely they all do? I keep mine at a level which gives the volume level of a 'proper' piano. One of the most frustrating concerts I have ever done was accompanying a choir on a good digital piano. When the conductor wanted me to play more quietly he would adjust the volume control instead of gesturing to me. By the end of the evening I was bashing hell out of the instrument most of the time! Never again.

That is taking the Mickey . It is the lot of orchestral, choral and jazz pianists to be the unheard heroes - without whom the choir would go flat (though they do any way) or in the case of jazz horns lose the immaculate harmonic thread that the piano and bass are laying down (hopefully). I once volunteered the opinion to a singer friend that the purpose of a the postlude in a Schubert Lied was for a musician to show the squawker how the tune should go ...I think he realised I was joking...

[Dave2002]

Yes, I agree that when buying a digital piano one needs an instrument that will produce a realistic volume level. Anything less and one will automatically use excessive force, possibly resulting in muscle strain. My old Technics has 120 watts output power and its sound will fill a big hall, but some models have much less, and cannot sound as loud as a real piano.

Not sounding as loud as a real piano is not necessarily an issue in a small house, which is the situation. If it was a big issue - and I'm not sure that it is - I presume that the sound could be reinforced by connecting to an external amplifier. The next model up, IIRC, does have more power, and more bells and whistles, though they are perhaps not needed by most people, and may just add to confusion.

We were slightly surprised at the volume sensitivity, and how it varies with key strokes. There might be some way of modifying that too, but the digital one definitely goes louder if it is struck more vigorously. Otherwise it seems to be stuck at some sort of "moderate" level i.e. not too loud, and that's even if the volume level is set right up.

Some players also use headphones, and then there is hardly any problem with loudness levels. One advantage of the particular digital piano we bought is that it is very slim and just fits neatly into a small space in a not very large house. I would prefer a louder instrument (except see the above comment about key sensitivity - which might fix the issue ...), but they cost more and have other disadvantages. If the cost goes up too much, then one might just as well buy a regular upright, or for somewhat more, a proper grand of some sort.

I have thought about buying a really decent piano, but much as I'd like one, my playing doesn't really justify a Fazioli - which I'd perhaps prefer to a Steinway. So we make do with an old and rather battered old grand with some problems, and currently it needs tuning - something which the electronic ones don't require. We have thought about scrapping it, which one piano tuner who was very sniffy about it recommended, but a couple of other people have said that it's OK and has a pleasant tone - if it's tuned.

There's another battered old upright in another room, which I rescued from a barn. I like that because of the action - it's surprisingly responsive, and we did have one tuner who said he knew more about it, as one of his relatives had been involved with the makers fairly early on last century.

Most piano tuners are pretty decent, though I do wonder whether some try to make money by getting commission from piano suppliers by disparagingly condemning instruments they are asked to service.

[Dave2002]

Oh, mine has a volume control too. Surely they all do? I keep mine at a level which gives the volume level of a 'proper' piano. One of the most frustrating concerts I have ever done was accompanying a choir on a good digital piano. When the conductor wanted me to play more quietly he would adjust the volume control instead of gesturing to me. By the end of the evening I was bashing hell out of the instrument most of the time! Never again.

What a dire story. I hope you had words with him later, and "learned him" about how modern technology works!

[cloughie]

That is taking the Mickey . It is the lot of orchestral, choral and jazz pianists to be the unheard heroes - without whom the choir would go flat (though they do any way) or in the case of jazz horns lose the immaculate harmonic thread that the piano and bass are laying down (hopefully). I once volunteered the opinion to a singer friend that the purpose of a the postlude in a Schubert Lied was for a musician to show the squawker how the tune should go ...I think he realised I was joking...

Unless they are 100% a cappella most choirs could manage without an MD (OK some can do both) but need an accompanist - they are, in my experience lovely, modest, talented people. On the question of volume I use a conventional piano so obviously no volume control other than my finger muscles - I know that when playing scales and learning pieces I tend to bang it out and only when trying to refine play ‘nicer’ and observe dynamins, though I think I’m learning to play more gently as time goes on.

[johnb]

Interesting discussion about digital pianos.

My own experience of them is from a few years back when I thought I would give the piano "a try" (I used to play somewhat as a teenager.)

I got hold of discontinued Technics digital piano and eventually got a piano teacher. My problem then was that the touch of the Technics was wildly different to that of my teachers Schimmel baby grand. The Technics had a much, much lighter touch and that left me completely at sea when I played a "real piano".

So, after a lot of research, I decided to get a decent (then) up to date digital piano. I tried the Yamahas and wasn't totally enamoured with them. In the end I settled on a Kawai costing around £2k which had a touch very similar indeed to my teachers Schimmel.

Digital keyboards/pianos go from the cheap and nasty to those that seriously attempt to emulate real pianos and for anyone interested in learning the piano I suggest that it is important to select one that replicates the touch, sensitivity to varied touches, etc of a real piano.

If the digital piano doesn't have the volume required I suggest the model was a less than ideal choice in the first place.

The main advantage of a digital piano, for me, is that you can use headphones - so you don't have to inflict your practising on the neighbours.

The disadvantages are that they cannot really fully replicate a real piano (though these days the best come close), and one of the criticisms of I have heard is that it is apparent when students had been learning on them because, for example, their use of dynamics is restricted (because they have been practising with headphones or at a low volume setting).

(By the way, the peak of my achievement was Janacek's Our Evenings, from On an Overgrown Path, and the slow movement from Mozart's K545.)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The easiest piano scales are probably the ones using all 5 black notes. The thumbs are used together twice in each octave and the other fingers are grouped 23/32 and 234/432. So all you have to really think about is which white keys to press.

The most difficult? I would suggest E flat minor.

[Pulcinella]

The easiest piano scales are probably the ones using all 5 black notes. The thumbs are used together twice in each octave and the other fingers are grouped 23/32 and 234/432. So all you have to really think about is which white keys to press.

D flat major indeed looks OK: thumbs on the F and C (white notes) for both hands.
I might give it a go later!

The most difficult? I would suggest E flat minor.

AARGH!
How on earth is your left hand supposed to go (upwards) smoothly from a thumb on the C flat to a 3 on the D natural?

Mikrokosmos Volume 1 beckons for me, I think.

[Jonathan]

I had lessons from the age of 7 until 18 with a teacher who lived near where I grew up and only resumed again at the age of 44 with a local teacher near York. My old teacher had said there was no point in doing ABRSM Grade 8 as I "was so far beyond it" (her words, not mine) when I last saw her about 20 years ago but I decided to go back and sit it. In the intervening 25 years, I'd forgotten almost all of my scales and had to relearn them in 3 months flat, and the pieces and all the theory (it had to do with the scheduling of the exams and the pieces i wanted to do). I managed and passed but I found the scales difficult despite playing Liszt and Alkan and much else besides all the time in between my two. I have to say that since I sat my exam, I've not touched the scales again...

[Joseph K]

I have to say that since I sat my exam, I've not touched the scales again...

Do you use etudes to warm up then?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

AARGH!
How on earth is your left hand supposed to go (upwards) smoothly from a thumb on the C flat to a 3 on the D natural?

Exactly. And if you try it (E flat minor) in contrary motion...

[Dave2002]

I'm not sure if this is going to help anybody, but anyway ...https://youtu.be/imUE52htAmc

I like the point that effectively most of us can do multiplications easily - at least up to 12 x 12, but not everyone can instantly play an A flat minor chord. Maybe this is more useful to people practising jazz piano - or is it also useful for people who want to play - and understand - classical music?

Hint: if you like it at all, you might want to play it and hit a screen save every so often .....

[Joseph K]

I'm not sure if this is going to help anybody, but anyway ...https://youtu.be/imUE52htAmc

I like the point that effectively most of us can do multiplications easily - at least up to 12 x 12, but not everyone can instantly play an A flat minor chord. Maybe this is more useful to people practising jazz piano - or is it also useful for people who want to play - and understand - classical music?

Hint: if you like it at all, you might want to play it and hit a screen save every so often .....

I haven't done it in a while, but I used to play II-V-Is in every key in different root movements i.e. chromatically, in fourths, in whole tones, in minor thirds, major thirds etc. These days I do that except as a continuous scale exercise e.g. for major thirds play B flat major as quavers for one bar, then D major, then F sharp, then A etc. (like descending augmented triads basically).

The song reminds me of Kurt Rosenwinkel's song 'Cubism' which features all key centres - or so I've read.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx-N2JxgWSs

I'd say it would be useful for classical musicians as well as jazz musicians - obviously.

[Serial_Apologist]

I haven't done it in a while, but I used to play II-V-Is in every key in different root movements i.e. chromatically, in fourths, in whole tones, in minor thirds, major thirds etc. These days I do that except as a continuous scale exercise e.g. for major thirds play B flat major as quavers for one bar, then D major, then F sharp, then A etc. (like descending augmented triads basically).

The song reminds me of Kurt Rosenwinkel's song 'Cubism' which features all key centres - or so I've read.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx-N2JxgWSs

I'd say it would be useful for classical musicians as well as jazz musicians - obviously.

That reminds me of what a jazz pianist once told me - that being able to play and improvise on the blues sequence in all the keys was the key to playing on anything chords-wise. My "breakthrough" belatedly came about a year ago after deciding I was bloody well determined to "master" "Giant Steps" as a tune to improvise on - all of a sudden that jostling sequence of alternating flats and sharps to be negotiated released some sort of blockage.

[Jonathan]

No, usually slow big stretched chords but sometimes I'll just play arpeggios (often in E flat) in both hands. Other times I don't even bother and will just launch into something.