Harmonics

[Dave2002]

Most modern electric pianos used sampled sounds nowadays. It was a gamechanger when sampled piano sounds replaced synthesised ones. That said, most electric pianos have the option of the old-style pre-sampled electric piano sound.

Indeed, but it's a bit more complicated than that. They use various techniques to improve the sounds, such as having samples of strings struck at different loudness levels, and probably some strings struck and held. Earlier ones may just have used "pure" synthesised sounds, and not even for each note, but rather just transposed up and down to fit the scales. Probably the better ones do have samples for every note, and actually more than one for each note, which get played in some form of round robin mode. Some may even include sounds of actions - so not just the sounds produced by the strings, but also the mechanical noise of the keys, and other noises, such as dampers etc.

I don't know which type of instrument is harder to represent by electronics. Possibly string instruments are still harder, because of the many different forms of articulation - arco, pizzicato, spiccato, and muted and harmonics sounds, and maybe others which are possible on instruments such as violins.

Modern electronic pianos can be pretty good, and they have the advantage of portabilty over regular pianos, as well as usually a cost advantage. They may also take up less space. However, £3000 can probably get a better regular piano, but acceptable digital pianos can be had for under £1000 or perhaps a bit more for one which might be considered better.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My electric piano cost an arm and several legs. I had to sell my Steinway, but wanted to replace it with something that could be used in a terraced house with headphones when necessary. I don’t really like the idea of ‘fake’ pianos, but this one really feels like the real thing. I really must see if it can fake harmonics.

[Dave2002]

We have old pianos - one baby grand and an upright, and a few keyboards. The electric piano is a few miles along the road.
The electric ones do have advantages in terms of space, weight, cost and you can even play in the middle of the night with headphones. They also don't need tuning - or other maintenance - or shouldn't. Having said that, I prefer "real" ones to use as pianos, but the electronic ones have other uses. They can also be driven by Midi, or generate Midi.

I think there's room for both sorts, though I'd far rather listen and play on a regular piano - but practical constraints are going to make that difficult for many people. Which piano have you bought? I think you mentioned some while back. I don't think we're ever going to get a really good piano, but that's fair, as I'm not a very good pianist. We had a friend who had a Steinway which filled his small living room - lovely instrument, though I'm not sure it made sense in a smallish suburban house. There was another upright there too, for playing duets. Nowadays many people don't want pianos, or if they do, they want them to use as drinks tables!

[rauschwerk]

I once spoke to a piano tuner about this . He told me that in fact piano strings produce very few harmonics. Since this flew in the face of everything I'd learnt at school and on the other hand he knew much more about the piano than I did I didn't challenge him . If you hold the sustain down won't you get sympathetic vibration from other strings?

Gilbert Briggs (founder of Wharfedale Wireless Works and a keen amateur pianist) wrote Pianos, Pianists and Sonics in 1951. He showed that by silently depressing various keys in turn and then striking bottom C he could induce sympathetic vibrations up to the 15th harmonic (about an octave above middle C) on both his 7'6"" Steinway and his 4'3" upright. The harmonic content in the case of the upright was not so rich.

Later in the book he refers to a 1949 paper in the Journal of the Acoustical Society of America in which it was shown that the attachment of weights of the order of 130 mg near to the end of lower strings adjusted the first eight overtones to within a few cents (hundredths of a semitone) on a 'medium grand' piano. I wonder if any manufacturer has ever adopted this?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Which piano have you bought? I think you mentioned some while back.

This one:

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/avantgrand/n3x/index.ht

Nowadays many people don't want pianos, or if they do, they want them to use as drinks tables!

It happens too often. Personally I completely lose it when someone puts a drink on my piano.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This one:

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/avantgrand/n3x/index.ht

It happens too often. Personally I completely lose it when someone puts a drink on my piano.

I tried out the Yamaha digital pianos in their Soho store - the grand N3X and N2 were lovely instruments. I also tried the full size concert grand upstairs - oh my word what a piano ...
As good as some Steinways. In the end my son bought a U1 - a really excellent piano with none of the over -brightness that people criticise Yamaha for. I was really tempted by the Yamaha digis though particularly as my reconditioned 1900's Blüthner is wearing out a bit and has been criticised for its space hogging properties...It is potentially a good drinks table though which is why it is covered with strategically placed impedimenta. I see Blüthner also do a digi - wonder what it's like.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Gilbert Briggs (founder of Wharfedale Wireless Works and a keen amateur pianist) wrote Pianos, Pianists and Sonics in 1951. He showed that by silently depressing various keys in turn and then striking bottom C he could induce sympathetic vibrations up to the 15th harmonic (about an octave above middle C) on both his 7'6"" Steinway and his 4'3" upright. The harmonic content in the case of the upright was not so rich.

Later in the book he refers to a 1949 paper in the Journal of the Acoustical Society of America in which it was shown that the attachment of weights of the order of 130 mg near to the end of lower strings adjusted the first eight overtones to within a few cents (hundredths of a semitone) on a 'medium grand' piano. I wonder if any manufacturer has ever adopted this?

Thanks for this - it is the sympathetic vibration which is so important in the overall tone colour of the piano I guess. I think what my tuner was referring to was the relatively few harmonics produced when a string is struck and and the key kept depressed without the use of sustain. I spent five mins banging low C like this yesterday and I can hear harmonics (I think - tinnitus complicates matters) . I guess what the tuner was getting at is that violin strings or flute notes contain more ?

[Dave2002]

This one:

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/avantgrand/n3x/index.ht

It happens too often. Personally I completely lose it when someone puts a drink on my piano.

I think I saw/heard something very similar - oh dear - quite a while back in the USA - probably in 1991, so nearly 30 years ago. A grand piano with an electronic interface as well. I think it was probably a precursor to yours as I think it played back from CDs. I can understand why you'd lose it, with a piano like that, though really hardly any deserve to be treated that way.

Actually I just looked up the details of your model type - possibly the instrument I saw was more like a player piano, as I recall it played like a "real" piano, so perhaps it had the merits of a regular piano, plus the problems - it might have needed tuning. It was very expensive. Yours perhaps has the action of a regular piano, but then uses pickups to translate these to instructions for an electronic instrument - which as you say can be very good. However, that type of instrument wouldn't normally go out of tune.

The video on the Yamaha site seems to show a keyboard action then electronic pickups, as I suggested above. Anyway, definitely an instrument to enjoy, whatever technology it uses.