Harmonics

[Dave2002]

This video about harmonics is well worth watching if you've not thought about harmonics and how important they are in music,
and if you already have it's still worth a few minutes of your time.

https://youtu.be/Wx_kugSemfY The most mind-blowing concept in music (Harmonic Series) by Andrew Huang

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This video about harmonics is well worth watching if you've not thought about harmonics and how important they are in music,
and if you already have it's still worth a few minutes of your time.

https://youtu.be/Wx_kugSemfY The most mind-blowing concept in music (Harmonic Series) by Andrew Huang

An interesting video, even though if sometimes felt like an episode of 'Friends'.

A good way to hear harmonics in action is to hold the sustaining pedal on a piano, then play the lowest C several times. Continue to hold the pedal down and you'll hear a rich C major chord (though it will be in equal temperament, not using the natural harmonic E).

[Ein Heldenleben]

An interesting video, even though if sometimes felt like an episode of 'Friends'.

A good way to hear harmonics in action is to hold the sustaining pedal on a piano, then play the lowest C several times. Continue to hold the pedal down and you'll hear a rich C major chord (though it will be in equal temperament, not using the natural harmonic E).

I once spoke to a piano tuner about this . He told me that in fact piano strings produce very few harmonics. Since this flew in the face of everything I'd learnt at school and on the other hand he knew much more about the piano than I did I didn't challenge him . If you hold the sustain down won't you get sympathetic vibration from other strings?

[Serial_Apologist]

I once spoke to a piano tuner about this . He told me that in fact piano strings produce very few harmonics. Since this flew in the face of everything I'd learnt at school and on the other hand he knew much more about the piano than I did I didn't challenge him . If you hold the sustain down won't you get sympathetic vibration from other strings?

Maybe - tbh I don't actually know: but aren't harmonics also obtainable from note combinations played simultaneously? Or for that matter from any sound object? Or am I spreading a useful discussion too thinly?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I once spoke to a piano tuner about this . He told me that in fact piano strings produce very few harmonics. Since this flew in the face of everything I'd learnt at school and on the other hand he knew much more about the piano than I did I didn't challenge him . If you hold the sustain down won't you get sympathetic vibration from other strings?

Yes you do. And the practice of overstringing pianos was/is to add richness to the sound through increased harmonics. The drawback is that you are then stuck with these harmonics, whether you want them or not.

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes you do. And the practice of overstringing pianos was/is to add richness to the sound through increased harmonics. The drawback is that you are then stuck with these harmonics, whether you want them or not.

Some jazz musicians (in particular) have made wonderful use of those by having the pianist sustain while a blowing instrument is played into the piano's interior.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes you do. And the practice of overstringing pianos was/is to add richness to the sound through increased harmonics. The drawback is that you are then stuck with these harmonics, whether you want them or not.

all this has had me reading up on piano tuning and inharmonicity - perhaps explaining why one piano four hands and even worse two pianos never quite sounds in tune (whatever that is).
Anyway what a very harmonious thread this is and on that note what a pleasure that Radio Three scheduled both Eine Alpensinfonie and Ein Heldenleben yesterday. Best regards from God's own county (Devon) to his other county ...

[Pulcinella]

I wonder what harmonics are incorporated into my Casio (in collaboration with Bechstein) GP-500 piano.

[Serial_Apologist]

all this has had me reading up on piano tuning and inharmonicity - perhaps explaining why one piano four hands and even worse two pianos never quite sounds in tune (whatever that is).
Anyway what a very harmonious thread this is and on that note what a pleasure that Radio Three scheduled both Eine Alpensinfonie and Ein Heldenleben yesterday. Best regards from God's own county (Devon) to his other county ...

Itr will only be harmonious when someone knowledgeable **resolves** my question regarding multiple harmonics!

[Flay]

Perhaps you are thinking about combination tones?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_tone

[Ein Heldenleben]

I wonder what harmonics are incorporated into my Casio (in collaboration with Bechstein) GP-500 piano.

That is a very interesting question which the wiki entry on inharmonicity answers - one of the challenges of synthesised piano sound (if your Casio is synthesised and not a sophisticated recording ) is reproducing what piano tuners do to , as I understand it, compensate for the differing thicknesses, tension, winding, slackness , and ageing of the string.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inharmonicity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_acoustics

[Serial_Apologist]

Perhaps you are thinking about combination tones?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_tone

Yes! Thanks very much for that information, Flay.

[Pulcinella]

That is a very interesting question which the wiki entry on inharmonicity answers - one of the challenges of synthesised piano sound (if your Casio is synthesised and not a sophisticated recording ) is reproducing what piano tuners do to , as I understand it, compensate for the differing thicknesses, tension, winding, slackness , and ageing of the string.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inharmonicity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_acoustics

Thanks for those links.

[Dave2002]

I recently bought a Casio Privia PS-X1000 as a birthday present - and it's now installed in a house not too far away. I think pianos like that (and that includes some other similar electronic pianos) use various forms of sampling synthesisers, so they are based on "real" pianos. Look at the Spitfire audio site to find out how some of these sounds are actually mapped on to synthesisers. There may be other tricks which are used in the hardware to make these instruments sound more like some of the pianos they are based on.

Some tricks which are used in synthesisers involve detuning oscillators very slightly to thicken the tone. That can probably be done even with a sampled sound. There are additional techniques, such as using LFOs and filters - I don't know what general methods the manufacturers do in an attempt to get a better sound for instruments which they call pianos. I think the techniques used vary, as some models can play in different temperaments, either with a flick of a switch, or a programmed control.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I recently bought a Casio Privia PS-X1000 as a birthday present - and it's now installed in a house not too far away. I think pianos like that (and that includes some other similar electronic pianos) use various forms of sampling synthesisers, so they are based on "real" pianos. Look at the Spitfire audio site to find out how some of these sounds are actually mapped on to synthesisers. There may be other tricks which are used in the hardware to make these instruments sound more like some of the pianos they are based on.

Most modern electric pianos used sampled sounds nowadays. It was a gamechanger when sampled piano sounds replaced synthesised ones. That said, most electric pianos have the option of the old-style pre-sampled electric piano sound.