April 2020 Gramophone

[richardfinegold]

Turns out that the Horenstein Mahler 3 in the Profil Box is NOT the one recorded in 1970 and originally released on Unicorn. It is a live LSO performance from 1961.
A Pristine Remaster of this 11/1961 Horenstein Mahler 3 can be sampled here, and there are details about the various recordings/performances.....

https://www.pristineclassical.com/co...oducts/pasc565

Interesting. I just took out a new Qobuz account but right now can only access it from a tablet so I am blu toothing the same performance. I thought the sound was dead but was blaming the Blu Tooth.

[richardfinegold]

I have the Horenstein Mahler 3 in a Scribendum box, having previously had the Unicorn CD, but have to confess I've not got round to listening to it yet. It does say digitally re-mastered but I'm guessing it is the same as the Unicorn issue.

On the wider issue of reviews and reviewing, bearing in mind JLW's comments here and on the VPO/Brahms thread, I have to say that, despite subscribing to Gramophone, I take less and less notice of the reviews as I get older. Like JLW, I, too, learnt an immense amount from Richard Osborne, Robert Layton, Edward Greenfield and all the rest from both Gramophone and the Penguin guides and remain eternally grateful.

Nowadays, I prefer to make my own mind up and celebrate the differences between rival interpretations. On the VPO/Brahms thread I think that Bernstein's Brahms 3 was dismissed as sluggish and in days of old I'd have not bothered with it (probably financial reasons played a part too!). Bernstein was a great musician and I'm now much more likely to want to buy it to hear what Lenny had to say and why he did it in the way he did.

I once went to an illustrated talk on the Elgar 2 given by Edward Greenfield at the RFH and simply could not believe how LOUD he played the excerpts, seriously at hearing damage level, and I think that might well have been the moment when I rather started to have doubts about reviewers.

At the risk of being redundant to repeat a bit from the VPO thread I appreciate the critics that teach me something, regardless of their opinions on a specific recording. RO prejudices against HIPP are front and center, but I did find the discussion of the Horenstein M3 to be illuminating.
And I concur completely with your Bernstein sentiments—anything that he did is worth hearing

[Bryn]

An enticing looking set. However, the QOBUZ listing has Horenstein spending but 2 seconds on the opening movement of the 1st Symphony (wrongly given the soubriquet "Titan").

Having now checked the streaming version on QOBUZ, one does indeed get only 2 seconds of the first movement of the 1st Symphony. It then leaps into the second movement.

[richardfinegold]

Having now checked the streaming version on QOBUZ, one does indeed get only 2 seconds of the first movement of the 1st Symphony. It then leaps into the second movement.

Very weird

[Bryn]

Very weird

Turns out several other 'tracks' in that set on QOBUZ also only last 2 seconds. Fortunately, the Mahler 3 is complete (including the applause at the end of Part 1, though it is faded out a little bluntly).

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/jascha-horenstein-reference-recordings-arrau-gitlis-oistrakh-perlemuter-watts-bamberger-symphoniker-lso/ocl0xww66893a

[jayne lee wilson]

Turns out several other 'tracks' in that set on QOBUZ also only last 2 seconds. Fortunately, the Mahler 3 is complete (including the applause at the end of Part 1, though it is faded out a little bluntly).

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/ja.../ocl0xww66893a

...as noted in #2, #6 above.....

[Bryn]

...as noted in #2, #6 above.....

Indeed, but in #14 it was specifically the opening movement of Mahler 1 that was being addressed, with specific reference to the invalid soubriquet. Later posts followed from there. QOBUZ is also asking a ridiculously high price for the 44.1/16 download, albeit replete with booklet pdf. A pretty meagre booklet it is, however.

[Cockney Sparrow]

It's available on Naxos Music Library** as well - with the PDF. As you say, the booklet contains the basic detail and a couple of pages of background.

** Profil Label, under "H" on the label listing - "Horenstein"
Naxos M Lib : http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...-library/page2

[jayne lee wilson]

At least the Profil booklet gives precise recording dates.... and the essay is concise (always good with me) and biographically very to the point. Not many words wasted. Not much wrong with it really.

[richardfinegold]

I listened to a good chunk of the set on Qobuz. I already have many of these recordings and I didn’t hear any difference between these and my Music & Arts Horenstein set. It is nice to have the 1961 M3 available.

[richardfinegold]

So can I ask...what is the verdict amongst Forumites reading this thread on Horenstein as a Mahlerian? He was active in the U.K. In his last years and some of you probably had greater experience with him than here, where he was a cult figure that has slowly gained in prominence through the decades. How did he compare with Mahlerians of his time (Bernstein, Walter, Haitink, Abravanel)
and how would he fare with the generations since?

[Barbirollians]

I love his Albert Hall Eighth despite the rather crumbly sound - it is the recording that makes me think most highly of the work .

The Third and Sixth are both very fine but my favourite Horenstein Mahler is his recording of the First Symphony - up there with Barbirolli ,Kubelik and Walter for me.

[richardfinegold]

I love his Albert Hall Eighth despite the rather crumbly sound - it is the recording that makes me think most highly of the work .

The Third and Sixth are both very fine but my favourite Horenstein Mahler is his recording of the First Symphony - up there with Barbirolli ,Kubelik and Walter for me.

His Fourth is less “sunny” than most, plays up the anxieties that tend to be submerged or smoothed by other Conductors. I agree with you about the First, which has been my go to version for years. I like the Vox Ninth, more than the BBC Legend, but to bad he wasn’t caught with a decent Orchestra and in stereo.