April 2020 Gramophone

[richardfinegold]

This being the current issue on our benighted shores, and I just having finished it, a couple of interesting points.
1) Their retrospective analysis of Horenstein/Mahler 3. The lp was my introduction and only version of it for a few decades, by the time it was released on CD I had moved on, purchased the CD but hardly listened to it and not for a few years. The article attacked the CD issue, which was absolutely justified, as I just played it. Someone should really take another crack at digitalizing it. As for the performance, they saved most of their admiration for the finale, and seemed to think that JH was a bit po faced elsewhere and had been superseded by numerous subsequent recordings. There probably is something to that as well, as I had transferred my allegiance to a few of these, but the authors do point out that at the time of the recording Mahler’s idiom wasn’t the known quantity with Orchestral Players as today.
2) RO had a look at Beethoven Nine on record. I would have thought that he would have chosen a Karajan but instead he plunked for Furtwangler (Bayreuth, 1954). The Reiner/CSO version that is my current love didn’t rate a mention. Ah, well

[jayne lee wilson]

New remastering of the Mahler 3 here.....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jascha-Horenstein-Reference-Recordings-Various/dp/B086G18YMB/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=horenstein+profil&qid=1591549302&sr=8-1

On Qobuz too, but some of the other transfers there are faulty (00'02 long....!) although the Mahler appears OK, to judge from the timings.....

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/jascha-horenstein-reference-recordings-arrau-gitlis-oistrakh-perlemuter-watts-bamberger-symphoniker-lso/ocl0xww66893a

No-one has admired more, or learned more from, RO than I have; but he seems increasingly dubious of HIPPs Classical recordings nowadays, tending more than ever to summon the great-conductor-and-soloist spirits of the past against which he offers harsh judgements upon the latter-day, the more radical. His vision of "The Great Classics", of how they can or should be played, has appeared to narrow recently. This came out in his very carping review of the Hough/Lintu (Hyperion) Piano Concertos in the May issue, which I have written about extensively here (with comments on RO's review) http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...ning-blog-2020 and which have given me deep and prolonged rewards.

Talking about "doing justice to the work's spiritual aspect"... can mean different things to different ears and listeners. So It is very disappointing that he ignores Norrington's SWR Beethoven 9th, a live recording that leaves shockwaves of joy and ecstasy in its trail and which became my benchmark some years ago. As with Antonini, there are other ways of presenting the 9th beyond Klemperer, Furtwangler etc etc. (RO's choice of Harnoncourt seems something of a safe way out).

I have arrived at the view that it helps few listeners to measure one against the other. (Hearing different performance styles, the better to appreciate the contrasting approaches, is another matter...).
Beethoven needs to be reheard, renewed for every age; that has to mean performing it anew. But most especially in 2020, for so many reasons.

[silvestrione]

This being the current issue on our benighted shores, and I just having finished it, a couple of interesting points.
1) Their retrospective analysis of Horenstein/Mahler 3. The lp was my introduction and only version of it for a few decades, by the time it was released on CD I had moved on, purchased the CD but hardly listened to it and not for a few years. The article attacked the CD issue, which was absolutely justified, as I just played it. Someone should really take another crack at digitalizing it. As for the performance, they saved most of their admiration for the finale, and seemed to think that JH was a bit po faced elsewhere and had been superseded by numerous subsequent recordings. There probably is something to that as well, as I had transferred my allegiance to a few of these, but the authors do point out that at the time of the recording Mahler’s idiom wasn’t the known quantity with Orchestral Players as today.
2) RO had a look at Beethoven Nine on record. I would have thought that he would have chosen a Karajan but instead he plunked for Furtwangler (Bayreuth, 1954). The Reiner/CSO version that is my current love didn’t rate a mention. Ah, well

Nor the Abbado/BPO Sony version that Stephen Johnson chose last time on BAL. And more confusingly, for those of us who admire and are always ready to be guided by both these gentlemen, high on SJ's list came the the Klemperer live version on Testament, whereas RO is dismissive of that and goes for the studio version! Good really, I know, you have to make up your own mind, easier to do these days with streaming and Youtube (no, I haven't yet). At least the Schmidt-Isserstedt, from which I learned the work, gets a mention.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This being the current issue on our benighted shores, and I just having finished it, a couple of interesting points.
1) Their retrospective analysis of Horenstein/Mahler 3. The lp was my introduction and only version of it for a few decades, by the time it was released on CD I had moved on, purchased the CD but hardly listened to it and not for a few years. The article attacked the CD issue, which was absolutely justified, as I just played it. Someone should really take another crack at digitalizing it. As for the performance, they saved most of their admiration for the finale, and seemed to think that JH was a bit po faced elsewhere and had been superseded by numerous subsequent recordings. There probably is something to that as well, as I had transferred my allegiance to a few of these, but the authors do point out that at the time of the recording Mahler’s idiom wasn’t the known quantity with Orchestral Players as today.
2) RO had a look at Beethoven Nine on record. I would have thought that he would have chosen a Karajan but instead he plunked for Furtwangler (Bayreuth, 1954). The Reiner/CSO version that is my current love didn’t rate a mention. Ah, well

The Reiner /CSO 'Jupiter' is quite possibly my favourite symphonic archive recording....

[Lordgeous]

[QUOTE=jayne lee wilson;795978]New remastering of the Mahler 3 here.....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jascha-Horenstein-Reference-Recordings-Various/dp/B086G18YMB/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=horenstein+profil&qid=1591549302&sr=8-1

On Qobuz too, but some of the other transfers there are faulty (00'02 long....!) although the Mahler appears OK, to judge from the timings.....

How do you know they've been remastered Jayne?

[jayne lee wilson]

[QUOTE=Lordgeous;795985]

New remastering of the Mahler 3 here.....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jascha-Horenstein-Reference-Recordings-Various/dp/B086G18YMB/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=horenstein+profil&qid=1591549302&sr=8-1

On Qobuz too, but some of the other transfers there are faulty (00'02 long....!) although the Mahler appears OK, to judge from the timings.....

How do you know they've been remastered Jayne?

I noted the faulty transfers above in #2 - and checked some by ear when I mentioned the box on the New Releases thread some days ago (22/05/20)....
The booklet note states that the recordings have been remastered....as with most if not all of these recent Profil Boxes.

"Re-Mastering:
THS Studio Holger Siedler"

[Barbirollians]

Another surprising thing about RO's Gramophone collection on Beethoven 9 was how whilst he dismissed the wartime Fürtwangler recording as somewhat hysterical and lauded unsurprisingly Orfeo's CD of the Bayreuth performance that there was no mention at all of the 1954 Lucerne Festival performance which has been on various labels - notably Tahra and now Audite which I recall him lauding to the skies in the 1990s - I am glad he did then as I love that performance.

[richardfinegold]

My Qobuz account isn’t working. Maybe they caught up with me.
Has anyone been able to listen to the current issue for the M3 and able to compare it?

[richardfinegold]

Another surprising thing about RO's Gramophone collection on Beethoven 9 was how whilst he dismissed the wartime Fürtwangler recording as somewhat hysterical and lauded unsurprisingly Orfeo's CD of the Bayreuth performance that there was no mention at all of the 1954 Lucerne Festival performance which has been on various labels - notably Tahra and now Audite which I recall him lauding to the skies in the 1990s - I am glad he did then as I love that performance.

I always thought the Lucerne was the prize...I had to do a double check when I saw it had fallen off of RO Mt. Olympus.

[jayne lee wilson]

"Though the Ninth Symphony is beyond the pale of period performance....." in the note to the Harnoncourt,
..was another highly contentious comment, to say the least... talk about begging the question...

Selected Discography doesn't include Bruggen or Krivine, let alone Haselbock...

(Nalen Antoni, not always a friend to period performance, had high praise for Bruggen's second recording (1/2013)).

[Petrushka]

I have the Horenstein Mahler 3 in a Scribendum box, having previously had the Unicorn CD, but have to confess I've not got round to listening to it yet. It does say digitally re-mastered but I'm guessing it is the same as the Unicorn issue.

On the wider issue of reviews and reviewing, bearing in mind JLW's comments here and on the VPO/Brahms thread, I have to say that, despite subscribing to Gramophone, I take less and less notice of the reviews as I get older. Like JLW, I, too, learnt an immense amount from Richard Osborne, Robert Layton, Edward Greenfield and all the rest from both Gramophone and the Penguin guides and remain eternally grateful.

Nowadays, I prefer to make my own mind up and celebrate the differences between rival interpretations. On the VPO/Brahms thread I think that Bernstein's Brahms 3 was dismissed as sluggish and in days of old I'd have not bothered with it (probably financial reasons played a part too!). Bernstein was a great musician and I'm now much more likely to want to buy it to hear what Lenny had to say and why he did it in the way he did.

I once went to an illustrated talk on the Elgar 2 given by Edward Greenfield at the RFH and simply could not believe how LOUD he played the excerpts, seriously at hearing damage level, and I think that might well have been the moment when I rather started to have doubts about reviewers.

[Darkbloom]

This being the current issue on our benighted shores, and I just having finished it, a couple of interesting points.
1) Their retrospective analysis of Horenstein/Mahler 3. The lp was my introduction and only version of it for a few decades, by the time it was released on CD I had moved on, purchased the CD but hardly listened to it and not for a few years. The article attacked the CD issue, which was absolutely justified, as I just played it. Someone should really take another crack at digitalizing it. As for the performance, they saved most of their admiration for the finale, and seemed to think that JH was a bit po faced elsewhere and had been superseded by numerous subsequent recordings. There probably is something to that as well, as I had transferred my allegiance to a few of these, but the authors do point out that at the time of the recording Mahler’s idiom wasn’t the known quantity with Orchestral Players as today.
2) RO had a look at Beethoven Nine on record. I would have thought that he would have chosen a Karajan but instead he plunked for Furtwangler (Bayreuth, 1954). The Reiner/CSO version that is my current love didn’t rate a mention. Ah, well

WF really seemed to approach the Ninth anew each time, I never feel he's just giving his usual reading. The Bayreuth version is good (although the horn fluff in the slow movement is irksome because you know it's coming) but the Lucerne one is also very good, and the wartime Ninth is astonishing - very dark and troubling.

[jayne lee wilson]

Turns out that the Horenstein Mahler 3 in the Profil Box is NOT the one recorded in 1970 and originally released on Unicorn. It is a live LSO performance from 1961.
A Pristine Remaster of this 11/1961 Horenstein Mahler 3 can be sampled here, and there are details about the various recordings/performances.....

https://www.pristineclassical.com/collections/artist-jascha-horenstein/products/pasc565

[Bryn]

Turns out that the Horenstein Mahler 3 in the Profil Box is NOT the one recorded in 1970 and originally released on Unicorn. It is a live LSO performance from 1961. . . .

An enticing looking set. However, the QOBUZ listing has Horenstein spending but 2 seconds on the opening movement of the 1st Symphony (wrongly given the soubriquet "Titan").

[Bryn]

I have the Horenstein Mahler 3 in a Scribendum box, having previously had the Unicorn CD, but have to confess I've not got round to listening to it yet. It does say digitally re-mastered but I'm guessing it is the same as the Unicorn issue. . . .

My CD version of the Unicorn recording is from a Brilliant Classics boxed set of the Mahler Symphonies with a range of conductors. I had to return the first two sets due to the CDs with the 3rd being faulty. Fortunately, they were followed replaced by copies that played without errors. The Horenstein 3rd was by far the highlight of the set.