Passacaglia in Shostakovich Eighth Symphony

[gurnemanz]

Kondrashin, Sanderling(**), Mravinsky...?

Only Russian conductors/orchestras really get the DSCH point here (or anywhere...).....

In Stephen Johnson's BaL of this work from 2014 (not a twofer and available) the "winner" was a Russian. I won't reveal who in case anyone wants to listen again and has forgotten. He liked Rostropovich live with LSO in this movement.

When I was reading Elizabeth Wilson's book a few years ago I made a note of a quote she gives from Yakov Milkis, a violinist in the Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra who had just played the work in the Royal Festival Hall under Mravinsky. After the concert he spoke to the composer, who was with them on the tour, saying how wonderful he found the transition from the Passacaglia movement to the finale. ‘My dear friend,’ came the reply, ‘if you only knew how much blood that C major cost me.’ I had the CD of that 1960 concert on BBC Legends and was able at the time to listen to that very performance.

[BBMmk2]

Overall, I think, that Barshai does this rather well. Must hear it again.

[richardfinegold]

Overall, I think, that Barshai does this rather well. Must hear it again.

I only played IV from Barshai in my survey a couple of days ago; maybe I’ll play the rest today.

[BBMmk2]

I only played IV from Barshai in my survey a couple of days ago; maybe I’ll play the rest today.

I hope to play later today.

[ostuni]

I have got a score (annotated with timings from the dozen recordings I've listened to in the 20-odd years since buying it); since reading this thread, I've listened to a few more on Spotify, and will add some thoughts in a second post. But first, I thought it might be useful to give a shortish guide to the movement, in the hope of clarifying which bits I'm referring to. As Steinberg says, the structure is a passacaglia (repeated bass line) with 11 variations (though, if you're counting, the variations only last for 9 bars each: it's just the initial one which contains 10 bars, once those two massive first chords have passed).

Var 1 low strings, marked p. Var 2 pp molto vibrato violin 2 moves up in pitch, and is joined by high violas. Var 3 at end, violin 1 enters, still pp, and moves up in pitch to start Var 4, molto espress., gets softer in last 3 bars in preparation for Var 5 horn solo, p espr. dolce over pp strings. Var 6 horn solo dies away, piccolo solo, pp. The final bar has a rit., and the piccolo is replaced by Var 7 a flute for one bar, followed by 8 bars of pizzicato upper strings and 4 fluttertonguing flutes.

Var 8 clarinet solo, pp. Var 9 2 clarinets in unison, playing off-beat notes, accented and mf (the loudest dynamic so far in the variations, though few conductors seem to observe it... Clarinets are accompanied by tutti strings, with Vln1 playing the passacaglia theme in canon with the basses, half a bar later. Strings are marked p espr.. Var 10 begins with just the bassline and a pp clarinet solo, replaced by pp upper strings. Var 11 Clarinets 1 & 2, overlapping slightly, with dynamic hairpins and, in middle of variation, 4 bars of pizzicato upper strings and fluttertongued chords on 3 flutes, accented, sf diminuendoing immediately to pp. In the final 3 bars, 2 clarinets and bass clarinet lead quietly into the consoling C major triad that begins the final movement.

[ostuni]

As you can see from that (rather rough & ready) description, the score does contain a fair bit of dynamic (loudness) variation, though nothing louder than Var 9's clarinets, apart from the loudly accented flute chords in the final variation. But there are quite a few markings of espress. scattered throughout the movement: conductors vary quite a lot in just how expressively they encourage the orchestras to play at these moments.

So yes, Haitink responds more than many do to these espress. markings, and adds dynamic shaping to the bass line in places where not specifically notated (under the clarinet solo in Var 6 and, especially, variation 8. He adds some unmarked slowing-downs, in the final bars of a few variations, but doesn’t really slow down the one time it is marked. Overall, one of the faster versions (9’04”).

Mravinsky is, of course, one of the Russians mentioned by Jayne, but I don’t hear his (Leningrad PO) version as unbleached as I think she does. Mravinsky goes in for rather more dynamic shaping of the strings than does Haitink, especially in Vars 2-4; the clarinets & strings in Var 9 push up more, and the clarinet crescendi in the final variation are more noticeable than any other. (His piccolo is a perfect example of Soviet era over-enthusiastic spot-miking!) In the middle of the speed range, 9’52”.

In contrast, both K Sanderling and Gergiev (in the latter's 2013 Mariinsky recording) go, by and large, for the bleached, uninflected approach. Sanderling only really brings up the dynamics for Var 9 (his clarinets are the only ones I've heard who go for a real mf, and the strings here are stronger. Sanderling is 10’32”, towards the slower end. Gergiev is quieter, throughout (even when the markings suggest otherwise): the pp clarinets are magically beautiful, and he's the only one to do a proper rit at the piccolo/flute moment at the end of Var 6. 9’56”.

Of the ones I haven’t managed to listen to this month, but do have timings in the score, Kondrashin is the fastest at 8’28” (wanted to find this, but couldn’t find a streaming version: my CDs disappeared in a big downsizing a few years ago). Nelsons, like K Sanderling, is slowish (10’32”), but the slowest by far is Previn's LSO (the first Western recording?, 1973) at 13’17”.

[jayne lee wilson]

Fascinatingly detailed posts, Ostuni, for anyone to reflect upon as they listen again.....thankyou for them.

Sorry to say I can't locate a streamable KK recording on Quobuz currently....

[Bryn]

Fascinatingly detailed posts, Ostuni, for anyone to reflect upon as they listen again.....thankyou for them.

Sorry to say I can't locate a streamable KK recording on Quobuz currently....

Some idea can be got from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN8Btz8voHk , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfUoloXYZdI or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxMiHCxf90I + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV0mvqc3bHc

This appears to be the recording that introduced me to the work:

[BBMmk2]

Ostini, Previn, in a talk he gave, mentioned very good reasons as to why he took the slow movement at that tempo. The reasons are quite illuminating.

[richardfinegold]

Much appreciated Ostuni. After doing some comparative listening between Haitink, Nelsons, Kitaenko, Barshai, and K. Sanderling (Qobuz, jlw suggestion) it appeared to me that Haitink was not only faster (which your helpful timings confirm) but that he turns what can be a lugubrious repetitive stretch into a separate dramatic element . Your description that he “adds dynamic shading to the bass line where none is specifically notated” is a perfectly concise way to explain the effect that took me about 50 times more verbiage to convey.
It is interesting that Previn clocks in at almost twice Haitink. As mentioned above my first encounter with the Eighth was a concert with Previn at the helm. I had borrowed a scratchy lp from our local library for at least one listen prior (my memory seems to suggest it was Barshai leading an English Orchestra? Or Bergland?) and I remember during the concert thinking this stretch was interminable. BBBM, is Previn’s talk available somewhere?
The Haitink Shostakovich box has been a real source of pleasure for me the past few weeks. This afternoon I plan to settle in with the Leningrad tonight.

[BBMmk2]

RFG, I hope so. Maybe on YouTube. I find his interpretation quite fine. Even more moving done this way.