Tuning and HIP

[verismissimo]

Many who continue to dislike HIP cite poor intonation as the main issue.

This will always be a problem when, as is inevitable, instruments lose their tuning more quickly than their "modern" equivalents. But to my ears, things have improved dramatically over the past quarter century in that department.

I'm left wondering whether many of the HIP-haters have perfect pitch (at modern concert pitch) and HIP performances, which are virtually never at 440, always sound out-of-tune to them?

Vladimir Jurowsky has said that he has perfect pitch - and that switching from the LPO to the OAE is always a bit painful for him in the first rehearsal.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This will always be a problem when, as is inevitable, instruments lose their tuning more quickly than their "modern" equivalents. But to my ears, things have improved dramatically over the past quarter century in that department.

This is very true for those of us who remember those early attempts, such as Christopher Hogwood conducting the AAM in Handel's Messiah and Water Music. For whatever reason, the standard of playing/tuning has improved dramatically since then.

[maestro267]

I'm left wondering whether many of the HIP-haters have perfect pitch (at modern concert pitch) and HIP performances, which are virtually never at 440, always sound out-of-tune to them?

Yes, this is true in my case.

[ostuni]

I really don't understand this suggested link between perfect pitch and 'sounding out of tune'. If someone has perfect pitch, calibrated to modern pitch, a baroque HIP band at A-415 is going to sound as if everything is transposed a semitone down. Disconcerting, maybe - but not at all the same as what I understand by 'out-of-tune'.

More to the point, maybe, is the tuning of the continuo chordal instruments. Harpsichords, organs, theorboes, will be tuned to an unequal temperament: some chords will sound more in tune than with equal temperament, but some will sound less so. This doesn't particularly apply to strings or wind, though: 'modern' (non-HIP) players don't play in equal temperament any more than HIP ones do.

[verismissimo]

Ostuni, a band like OAE will play at a wide variety of pitches in different repertoire. For example, a commonly used pitch at the end of the 19th century was "French pitch" at 435, a tad below modern concert pitch, while at the same time the Covent Garden orchestra usually played at 455, above modern concert pitch.

Your point about unequal temperament is well taken.

[Ariosto]

Many who continue to dislike HIP cite poor intonation as the main issue.

This will always be a problem when, as is inevitable, instruments lose their tuning more quickly than their "modern" equivalents.

Even if the open strings go down (or up) one should be able to still play in tune and avoid the open strings.

But to my ears, things have improved dramatically over the past quarter century in that department.

They have not improved to my ears, except in a few cases.

I'm left wondering whether many of the HIP-haters have perfect pitch (at modern concert pitch) and HIP performances, which are virtually never at 440, always sound out-of-tune to them?

I have found that some players with perfect pitch have intonation problems ...

There is no reason of course why HIP players should not have good intonation. There is also no reason why HIP players should not have a big sound, depending on how the instrument is set up. Of course, with gut strings and lower tension this may mean a smaller sound, but not always.

[old khayyam]

This looks like an interesting thread. I'd love to join in but no-one has explained to this novice what HIP means..

[french frank]

This looks like an interesting thread. I'd love to join in but no-one has explained to this novice what HIP means..

HIP(P) is Historically Informed Performance (Practice), or playing music of earlier times in a way that research suggests it might have been played at that time. For a more informed reply, come back later

[Bryn]

It's the acronym for Historically Informed Performance. There is also "HIPP" - Historically Informed Performance Practice, which is, perhaps, a little more apposite.

[You beat me to it, Frenchie.]

[french frank]

I can do the acronym, but I bow to you when it comes to the technicalities of equal and unequal temperament!

[Bryn]

I try to keep a fairly even temperament, but am not always successful.

[Ariosto]

I've had several HIP(P) replacements but none of them have worked. But if I can wobble a round a bit longer maybe it will all get sorted?

[old khayyam]

Thank you both for your informed replies.