Liszt doesn’t figure very highly in my pantheon of composers, but as I have been delving deep into my shelves and playing some discs from the Phillips Great Pianists series during quarantine, I’ve been turning up more of works than my norm. I’ve never read a biography of him nor am I interested enough to do so, but With all of these ‘Years of Pilgrimage Pieces, it has made me wonder why he became a Priest in his middle age. Was he really sincere, or was the confessional just a useful tool to aide in his sexual conquests? Or should I seek out the Ken Russell movie featuring Roger Daltry for an answer?
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Like you, Richard, Liszt's music is a blind spot for me..... Seems to be far tooo showy, and I'm not motivated to explore further. Perhaps other contributions here will change my feelings about that. -
Well I would avoid the Ken Russell movie which is pretty far from the truth. If you can get it and don’t mind a long read, Alan Walkers biography gives a much clearer picture of a complex man whose music is far more than the Concert Paraphrases much as I for one enjoy them.
As for sincerity I would turn no further than the Anneee you mention, the water in the Villa dEste fountains is not just a picture like the Ravel Jeux d Eau, but representative of the water of baptism, the hymn like theme marked pp dolcismo has above the words “ sed aquam quam ego dabo ei, fiet in eo Fons aqua salientis in vitam aeternam” JOhn 4, 14.
I would recommend Christ’s as a good if lengthy introduction to this aspect of output, but then the Songs show another part of his personality, the Hyperion edition is well worth following.Comment
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Russell’s movie is great for a laugh and its singular cinematic inventiveness, but as for verisimilitude... . The late piano pieces are rewarding, and certainly ahead of their time. Brendel’s classic disc and Tiberghien’s more recent one get more plays than any of his other works (his earlier music invariably conjure images of maidens chained to a railway track by a moustache-twirling heavy). Adam’s The Black Gondola is a rather effective orchestration.Comment
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Showmanship is but a tiny fragment of Liszt the composer of piano music; where is it to be found in his orchestral works, his songs or indeed many of his piano works (and not only the later, more "experimental" ones)? Even the operatic paraphrases transport that kind of treatment to a new level, elevating them from mere potpourris to substantial recharacterisations wherein the virtuosity is as much in the re-creation than in the piano writing. Also, how "showy" are his piano transcription of all the Beethoven symphonies?Comment
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Yes there is that religious element in the music (which I love, the waters of life flowing also in the 'Benediction de Dieu dans la solitude') from quite early on, but I hope someone will take up the challenge of Richard's basic question: why did he go so far as to become Abbe Liszt?Comment
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There are perhaps a dozen pieces of his that I have loved since my teens - I highly recommend the Kun Woo Paik disk of Liszt, also Pletnev playing the sonata amongst other things. Lazar Berman playing the Years of Pilgrimage.
I can't really go into the Abbe thing - I have only read the first two parts of Alan Walker's magisterial biography - but I would be curious to know where Richard got the impression that it was just something for sexual conquests - I mean surely being the World's Greatest Pianist would be enough?
Besides which, it would appear to have been based on a very low opinion of Liszt, to ascribe such motives to him. Anyone who knows Liszt's great Poetic and Religious Harmonies would know the depth of Liszt's religious fervour, how this feeling might be imparted to a sympathetic listener. Not only are they highly forward-looking pieces with incredible harmonies and a keen lyric sense, but I would go so far as to place them as the source of particular aesthetic tendencies in subsequent music e.g. Ravel and Debussy, Scriabin, Messiaen. And also from what I recall, Liszt was quite a selfless person with how he would promote music he thought was worth something...
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Far more than showmanship in the epic-length Faust and (more concise)Dante Symphonies, and some of the very original symphonic poems.... you could do far worse than delve into this edition.....
...the two Assisi Legends are especially lovely.... (Vol.5, with the Dante Symphony)
When they weren't more concerned with rehashing familiar rep., Les Siècles produced this marvel.....
Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 03-04-20, 14:00.Comment
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I can recommend 'The Book of Liszts' by John Spurling (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Liszts.../dp/190649794X). It gives a sympathetic (albeit fictionalised) view of the man, and is much shorter than Alan Walker's biography.Comment
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exactly. I don't deny that he was a Great Musician. A little of his music goes a long way for me, I do like the water imitiation-proto-Debussy sounding stuff, and the Opera paraphrases are ok until three minutes when they start to wear thin. The Hungarian Rhapsodies are best enjoyed as background to a Bugs Bunny cartoon The Dante Sonata and Faust Symphony I can't abide, but his one movement Piano Sonata I can trot out about once a year.Originally posted by silvestrione View Post
However, as silvestrione notes, the quality of his Music wasn't my interest here. One can have religious feelings, without taking vows and (supposedly) becoming celibate. The little snippets of biography that I have encountered about Liszt during this period suggest that he was more of a Cafeteria Catholic, that he liked to say Mass and give benedictions, but other Priestly obligations, including celibacy, he openly flaunted. I could be wrong, and sorry, I have a reading list (Liszt?) that is pretty long and includes biographies of several Composers that I view of greater merit that I have been meaning to get to, so I am being lazy and picking the brains of those more knowledgeable than myself. I guess I should hunt out the Ken Russel movie if for no other reason than a good laugh, sorely needed in these timesComment
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I seem to have a slightly higher opinion of Liszt than most hereabouts but... my biggest problem with him is he never - well hardly ever - knows when to stop repeating a good idea. I've probably aired this particular example before, his setting of Goethe's tiny 8-line jewel, Wanderers Nachtlied. It's absolutely perfect until he starts infinite repetitions of the last two lines. "Balde ruhest du auch" - not any time soon we won't!I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!Comment
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For quite a long time I avoided most of Liszt's music assuming it involved too much showmanship to be to my taste but I got the DG 30cd box anniversary box a few years ago. No danger of duplication since I hardly had any recordings. I think I listened to everything even the religious pieces which were totally new. Worth the effort if not likely to become favourite pieces. The Via Crucis is restrained, sincere and beautiful in a fine recording with Reinbert de Leeuw on piano and the Netherlands Chamber Choir. His new recording - his last before his recent death - has had rave reviews. I discovered a lot I really like, eg the songs, song transcriptions, Années de Pèlerinage, some of the Symphonic Poems. I saw the Piano Sonata live for the first time only recently and got a lot more from that experince than from just listening at home.
Whatever his motives, his becoming an abbé certainly resulted in mockery among the Wagner set, which of course included his daughter, Cosima, who became a Protestant. Cosima's adultery with Wagner was causing him great pain at the time he took that step, apparently more so than even the deaths of his son and daughter. Hearing pieces like Via Crucis does not make you doubt his religious conviction. He did not deserve the treatment he got from Cosima at the end. None of his own music was played at his funeral. Bruckner did some Parsifal improvising on the organ.Comment
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I’m a great fan of Liszt’s piano music. I like some of his orchestral music, but there’s not many.Don’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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I read the wiki article, and it seems that prior to his decision to enter a Monastery two of his adult children died and he was emotionally bereft. After a few years apparently giving the odd recital while living at the Monastery he resumed life as a touring virtuoso, merging his new life with his old by creating his works with religious themes. There is a fascinating reference to a meeting with the young Debussy in Rome, where Debussy states Liszt pedaling had the quality of breathing.
Actually I have changed my mind about reading a biography of Liszt. His life was very interesting and he lived in very interesting times. I am appreciative of some of the biographies suggestedComment
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