Self-employed musicians.....

[ardcarp]

I hope the Chancellor's announcement today will be of some relief to us, even if we don't see a bean until June.
I dare say there will be some devil in the detail. For instance I hope he doesn't disqualify people (such as me) who are in receipt of the state retirement pension. That should have nothing to do with it as IM strong O that is there as a right and is not a benefit, whatever they might call it.

Views, anyone?

[MrGongGong]

On the surface it looks like good news
He even mentioned musicians by name

Not sure if waiting till June will work though ?

[Bryn]

On the surface it looks like good news
He even mentioned musicians by name . . .

Which ones did he name?

[Tony Halstead]

Which ones did he name?

[MrGongGong]

He had you on the list

[Bryn]

He had you on the list

"Your name, too, will go on the list".

[Dave2002]

We almost immediately saw a hiccup in the stated policy on Question Time tonight when one self employed person (perhaps a plumber, not a musician) who apparently is known to HMRC with a UTR (Unique Tax Reference) said that since he'd only been trading for around a year, and not got all the documents which Rishi Sunak had suggested were required, explained that under the Chancellor's rules he wouldn't get anything. The Tory apologist Robert Jenrick said that "wasn't quite true", that since he had a UTR and other documents, that if he made an application to HMRC with those documents he might be considered. This was a contradiction to what Rishi had said earlier. Rishi said that he could only put forward a scheme to support 95% of self employed people, and couldn't help the rest. That still leaves 5% - possibly still a large number - with a difficult problem.

However, even if there is help available, some people are definitely going to struggle to survive until June, when the payouts will start.

I suppose that musicians can't even start busking now.

[ardcarp]

HMRC have my tax-returns for the past 40+ years and my bank details. I guess it's a click of a button in my case, so I can't quite understand the June thing.

I suppose that musicians can't even start busking now.

I have a picture of Mrs A standing 2 metres from the end of our driveway in full voice (modified only slightly by a surgical mask), a spaced out audience obeying a one-way system along our lane, and a request to pay via a card-reader cunningly displayed in a fully sanitized wheelbarrow. We'd declare the income, of course.

[kernelbogey]

As a consumer of music, not a musician, just want to express sadness and solidarity with you guys....

[Pulcinella]

If, as has been hinted at, self-employed NI contributions get raised, one would hope that there'd then be the concomitant benefits such as sick-pay.

[MrGongGong]

If, as has been hinted at, self-employed NI contributions get raised, one would hope that there'd then be the concomitant benefits such as sick-pay.

Quite

[teamsaint]

If, as has been hinted at, self-employed NI contributions get raised, one would hope that there'd then be the concomitant benefits such as sick-pay.

Self employed people already pay very similar rates of NI to employees.

The advantages of self employment come to a considerable extent in allowable expenses, so maybe that is where the chancellor is looking for savings.

As far as I am can see, for most genuinely self employed people, the favourable tax regime is broadly balanced by the poor benefits in terms of state support.

What needs sorting out is sham self employment for delivery drivers etc, as well as abuses among higher earners.

[Pulcinella]

Self employed people already pay very similar rates of NI to employees.

The advantages of self employment come to a considerable extent in allowable expenses, so maybe that is where the chancellor is looking for savings.

As far as I am can see, for most genuinely self employed people, the favourable tax regime is broadly balanced by the poor benefits in terms of state support.

What needs sorting out is sham self employment for delivery drivers etc, as well as abuses among higher earners.

This from The Guardian (not trying to pick nits, btw!):

The chancellor, who urged people to act responsibly, strongly hinted that after the coronavirus support measures were no longer needed, the government would return to the thorny political issue of levelling up national insurance contributions (NICs) between the self-employed and employees.

He said it was fair to consider how to “right the ship” afterwards, which was widely seen as a reference to the fact that self-employed people pay a 9% national insurance rate, compared with 12% percent paid by most employees earning up to £50,000 a year. The issue was raised by the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who eventually dropped the proposal to even out contributions.

[ahinton]

Self employed people already pay very similar rates of NI to employees.

Most do indeed; it's only NIC2 that's much lower but most self-employed also pay NIC4 which comes with no benefits whatsoever, so any increase in NIC for the self-employed would be most unreasonable and disproportionate.

That said, there will probably also be acrimonious arguments about those above state retirement age (while there still is one) who pay no NIC at all (other than employers' NIC1 if they employ people); perhaps that loophole will be abolished instread so that NIC is payable by everyone who works irrespective of age. I very much hope not, of course, but I daresay that this idea - and the possible alternative of raising state retirement age or abolishing it altogether - will already have occured to someone in government...

[ahinton]

This from The Guardian (not trying to pick nits, btw!):

The chancellor, who urged people to act responsibly, strongly hinted that after the coronavirus support measures were no longer needed, the government would return to the thorny political issue of levelling up national insurance contributions (NICs) between the self-employed and employees.

He said it was fair to consider how to “right the ship” afterwards, which was widely seen as a reference to the fact that self-employed people pay a 9% national insurance rate, compared with 12% percent paid by most employees earning up to £50,000 a year. The issue was raised by the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who eventually dropped the proposal to even out contributions.

Whilst there is a small difference between NIC1 for employees and NIC2+NIC4 for the self-employed, the latter receive far less in return for what they pay. NIC for all is a tax on earnings/profits anyway and should be merged with income tax, thereby saving squillions.