French horns

[silvestrione]

I think that you may be referring to the 5/4 waltz movement of Tchaikovsky 6. The conductor would be Iain Whyte who was BBCSSO Chief conductor up to 1960 (the year of his death).

The 1st horn you heard would possibly be be Farquharson Cousins who passed away aged 100 recently. 'Farky' was a great exponent of the true French horn - affectionately called the 'peashooter' although I think that he had reluctantly changed to a German-style large bore horn by his BBC days. To hear an interview with him go to: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b04v381r

Not sure why the horns would come over 'coarse and overloud'. All I can say is that there is a rhythmic passage for the horns in an early chorus in Verdi's opera Nabucco. Most would say that it gives momentum to the music but should not really be noticed other than that. We did it with a conductor (famous trumpet player before getting 'stick disease') who insisted that we whacked it out so as to more-or-less drown everybody else. And hard as we tried, he gestured for more Of the many adverse press comments I remember that "the horns played with uncouth Russian blare"! So who was to blame?

[Once Was 4]

This is surely renowned as one of the scariest, especially as it often comes as a concert opener.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7O9Oa22nsQ

Now that's very interesting! Notice how the 2nd horn puts the last two notes of the solo in for the 1st horn (Johannes Ritkowsky I think). This apparently was almost universal practice years ago - also the 4th horn would do the same for the 3rd when s/he plays the solo a minor third lower later on.

One old timer with whom I worked used to say that, in his youth, the 'low' (i.e., 2nd & 4th) players could not play the high notes and that if the 'high' (i.e., 1st & 3rd) players could play the low ones they did not bother to do so! This has it roots in the history of horn playing back to the time when you would be trained as a 1st or 2nd horn. 2nd horns were usually the soloists (hence those 2nd and 4th horn solos in Beethoven etc., which people often wonder about).

Not usual these days though.

[Flay]

This is how it's done...

https://m.facebook.com/RCOclarinet/videos/356731367823500/?d=m&vh=e

[cloughie]

They may largely in the past now but I do like French sounding French Horns in French music!

[EnemyoftheStoat]

To be a horn player is to be a God! (Especially in Elgar Symphony 2!)

I can’t argue with you, having achieved minor deity status a while ago.

There are some real gods out there though!

[Once Was 4]

Now that's very interesting! Notice how the 2nd horn puts the last two notes of the solo in for the 1st horn (Johannes Ritkowsky I think). This apparently was almost universal practice years ago - also the 4th horn would do the same for the 3rd when s/he plays the solo a minor third lower later on.

One old timer with whom I worked used to say that, in his youth, the 'low' (i.e., 2nd & 4th) players could not play the high notes and that if the 'high' (i.e., 1st & 3rd) players could play the low ones they did not bother to do so! This has it roots in the history of horn playing back to the time when you would be trained as a 1st or 2nd horn. 2nd horns were usually the soloists (hence those 2nd and 4th horn solos in Beethoven etc., which people often wonder about).

Not usual these days though.

Just to add to that, the woman playing 3rd horn does it all herself including the last two notes. A YouTube commentator comments on Herr Ritkowsky (a protege of the great Hermann Baumann) playing the solo 'correctly'. I assume this means that it is rhythmically accurate.

[Oakapple]

The horn solo (played on the 2nd horn as someone noted above) after the slow introduction to Beethoven's Fidelio overture bears some resemblance to that in Till Eulenspiegel. Especially the descending notes at the end and it has the same range, albeit on a horn in E rather than F. I wonder if that was ever shared between two horns.

[MrGongGong]

This is how it's done...

https://m.facebook.com/RCOclarinet/videos/356731367823500/?d=m&vh=e

[MrGongGong]

Or even this with the extraordinary Arkady Shilkloper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxeulgi59Gg&frags=pl%2Cwn

[Bryn]

These horns are decidedly French:

This, if you can find a copy, is a delight:

[Cockney Sparrow]

I thought that Calliope disc wasn't on Naxos Music Library* but searching on "CAL9504" finds it. (Messe de Saint-Hubert (performing group: Le Débuché De Paris). More accomplished than the You Tuber's efforts. I'm interested to have heard it but glad I didn't spend a tenner on securing a copy of the CD. One for enthusiasts of the natural horn I suggest. (*per the thread on NML in the reference library sub section of Talking about Music of the forum)

I enjoy the sound of the modern day French Horn, very much. I find the Berlioz: Le carnaval romain Overture track on the London Horn Sound (CALA CD) thrilling - in the superb execution and elan in performance and the recorded sound. A group of London's principal players.

Ruslan and Lyudmilla is fine too, although I'm not that taken with the other tracks - arrangements of various sorts. The CD can still be found, or the track downloaded:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8067587--the-london-horn-sound

Added: Regrettably the Cala disc isn't on NML - the label as a whole doesn't feture there Probably on Spotify - its on Google Play Music...

[Bryn]

I thought that Calliope disc wasn't on Naxos Music Library* but searching on "CAL9504" finds it. (Messe de Saint-Hubert (performing group: Le Débuché De Paris). More accomplished than the You Tuber's efforts. I'm interested to have heard it but glad I didn't spend a tenner on securing a copy of the CD. One for enthusiasts of the natural horn I suggest. (*per the thread on NML in the reference library sub section of Talking about Music of the forum . . .

I must admit that my copy was an entirely speculative purchase from Mr CD, Berwick Street. It cost me all of £1,99, IIFC.