French horns

[Segilla]

When I first started to listen to music c. 1948 these instruments were prone to 'bubble' (if that is the right term for missing the note). Nowadays it seems to be a comparative rarity. Is this due to better instruments or more skilful musicians?
In the 1950s Gramophone the reviewer of Tchaikovsky's 5th highly praised the recording, but improbably suggested that the slow movement should be re-recorded due to the French horn's failings.

[ardcarp]

Is this due to better instruments or more skilful musicians?

The latter. I'm sure Tony will agree. And the amazing skill of Baroque trumpers these days as opposed to early efforts in the 1950s/60s/70s is incredible.


PS Again, I stand to be corrected by Tony as I've only waved a stick at them and not played them. But Dennis Brain and a little later Barry Tuckwell were considered wizards of horn-playing....and indeed they were...but I guess the technique of many young players (for instance in the NYO) is nowadays on a par.

[DracoM]

I always think sympathetically of horn players off-stage waiting to come on to start a Bruckner 4th - low growl, then ppp you're in!! Nowhere to hide!

[Oakapple]

There's an interesting account of how the opening of Das Rheingold was recorded for the Solti Ring in John Culshaw's Ring Resounding.

It had already been recorded four times but there was a feeling it could be better and surprisingly the orchestra agreed to come back after playing for five and a half hours in the recording hall and three and a half hours at the opera that day. It was almost midnight and on the first go, one horn cracked near the beginning. Another try and another horn cracked. (Think how tired the players must have been after such a long day.) Finally, at the third attempt at 20 past midnight, an excellent performance was achieved.

[ardcarp]

This is surely renowned as one of the scariest, especially as it often comes as a concert opener.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7O9Oa22nsQ

[pastoralguy]

To be a horn player is to be a God! (Especially in Elgar Symphony 2!)

[DracoM]

Oh blimey - yes - Till.........forgot that!

[jayne lee wilson]

Surprised no-one has mentioned Haydn.... not just No.31.....it could be quite a long list.....

[Bella Kemp]

I think it was regarding Don Juan where Andre Previn said that the only way to create a successful opening was for the conductor to start before the audience stopped applauding - but they would need to applaud like uncontrolled and amplified sea lions to cover the horns in Till Eulenspiegel: gosh it's fiendish! I've never heard a collapse in Mahler 3, though.
As a child I was always told that the french horn was the hardest instrument to play - this now seems silly as an adult but I wonder if there might be some truth in this.

[MrGongGong]

PS Again, I stand to be corrected by Tony as I've only waved a stick at them and not played them. But Dennis Brain and a little later Barry Tuckwell were considered wizards of horn-playing....and indeed they were...but I guess the technique of many young players (for instance in the NYO) is nowadays on a par.

Beyond IMV

[Segilla]

Thank you all for your thoughts. Another old memory is of 'learning' Tchaikovsy's 6th from records and later hearing it played by a BBC Scottish Regional orchestra. In the slow movement the horns have a 4 note motif (up an octave and down again) and the BBC orchetra's playing was coarse, overloud and intrusive compared with that on the 78s.
(The names J Mouland Begbie and - Whyte have just come to mind - when far more important things are now lost forever.)

[richardfinegold]

I know one retired horn player who says that the opening of the Brahms PC2 would have him laden with knots in his stomach

[BBMmk2]

Brass instruments tended to still make this bubble noise. If the musician is not careful enough by blowing out the water, regularly enough.

[Once Was 4]

Thank you all for your thoughts. Another old memory is of 'learning' Tchaikovsy's 6th from records and later hearing it played by a BBC Scottish Regional orchestra. In the slow movement the horns have a 4 note motif (up an octave and down again) and the BBC orchetra's playing was coarse, overloud and intrusive compared with that on the 78s.
(The names J Mouland Begbie and - Whyte have just come to mind - when far more important things are now lost forever.)

I think that you may be referring to the 5/4 waltz movement of Tchaikovsky 6. The conductor would be Iain Whyte who was BBCSSO Chief conductor up to 1960 (the year of his death).

The 1st horn you heard would possibly be be Farquharson Cousins who passed away aged 100 recently. 'Farky' was a great exponent of the true French horn - affectionately called the 'peashooter' although I think that he had reluctantly changed to a German-style large bore horn by his BBC days. To hear an interview with him go to: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b04v381r

Not sure why the horns would come over 'coarse and overloud'. All I can say is that there is a rhythmic passage for the horns in an early chorus in Verdi's opera Nabucco. Most would say that it gives momentum to the music but should not really be noticed other than that. We did it with a conductor (famous trumpet player before getting 'stick disease') who insisted that we whacked it out so as to more-or-less drown everybody else. And hard as we tried, he gestured for more Of the many adverse press comments I remember that "the horns played with uncouth Russian blare"! So who was to blame?

[Lordgeous]

Where's Tony?