Fischer: Mozart Symphonies 39-40-41

[kernelbogey]

Disappointed that Radio 3 has chosen to broadcast other music during the interval (after the slow movement of the G minor) when, as this is a recording, they could have taken us straight through to the third movement of No 40, and on - so enhancing this interesting experiment in a way not available to those in the hall.

Also, Skellers had to 'explain' to us, after the fourth movement of No 39, that we were now going straight on to No 40.....

Some lack of imagination at R3!

[visualnickmos]

What is the reason for going straight from 39 to 40, presumably with only a normal 'movement' break? Sounds an odd thing to do....

[kernelbogey]

Fischer is performing Harnoncourt's contention that the last three symphonies are a single work of twelve movements.

[oddoneout]

What is the reason for going straight from 39 to 40, presumably with only a normal 'movement' break? Sounds an odd thing to do....

The 3 symphonies are being approached as 12 movements, so 6 before and 6 after the interval.

[edashtav]

Disappointed that Radio 3 has chosen to broadcast other music during the interval (after the slow movement of the G minor) when, as this is a recording, they could have taken us straight through to the third movement of No 40, and on - so enhancing this interesting experiment in a way not available to those in the hall.

Also, Skellers had to 'explain' to us, after the fourth movement of No 39, that we were now going straight on to No 40.....

Some lack of imagination at R3!

I'm in agreement with you.
There's been some magical interpretation and playing...I'm loving this concert!

[DracoM]

AND applause between movements!

[oddoneout]

Double threads - worth merging?

[visualnickmos]

The 3 symphonies are being approached as 12 movements, so 6 before and 6 after the interval.

I realise that. But why? They surely were never intended to performed thus?

[jayne lee wilson]

I realise that. But why? They surely were never intended to performed thus?

See my posts on the Mozart 39 BaL thread for more on this......

***

(Copied slightly revised from the onestop thread..

Here I am at the interval......This OAE/I-Fischer Mozart 39-41 is a great concert! Ian Skelly went into perfect detail about the concert layout in his intro before 39 (and Fischer did this himself as well, referencing the 12-movement concept of his "wonderful teacher, Nikolaus Harnoncourt"), so why worry?

The audience are not just diving into applaud on their own account (or not only, not that it would bother me..)... Fischer encouraged them in his spoken intro before the 39th to applaud whenever they liked saying that he preferred this to the usual "embarrassing silence" between movements......

...All of which pales before the excellent playing, so detailed, dynamic and rhythmically alive, interpretively straightforward but never overdriven and with many affectionate, thoughtful and individual touches.....

And excellent sound on the aac 320 kbps BBC Sounds feed..fine weight, body and presence....great Horns!
.... Genuinely surprised at the quality of this, usually listen on a diet of CD/HiRes....(DAC set to 24/48 for R3)...

***

The Band are coming back...!.I''m off to the show again for Part 2.....G minor minuet now playing..
A fiery uncompromising end to No.40! Superb! Now for the Grand One....

Which was of course magnificent! It just had, had, had, to be...!
Playing of such energy, warmth and a spare, light-textured, lithe beauty which yet had great punch and weight when it should. The kind of sound I love to hear in Mozart now, the later Bruggen notwithstanding...)

Helplessly breathless here, but this was a genuine, thrilling "event" a marvellous one-off, in and of itself..... if you missed it tonight, do try to catch it up.
I better check the R3 Concert Schedules more often in future....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Fischer is performing Harnoncourt's contention that the last three symphonies are a single work of twelve movements.

The concept is a bit like extreme religious fundamentalism.

[cloughie]

I realise that. But why? They surely were never intended to performed thus?

Sounds a daft idea to me!

[visualnickmos]

Sounds a daft idea to me!

Quite so. I have no desire to hear Mozart's last three symphonies performed in this way.

[jayne lee wilson]

One of my posts (slightly revised) From the recent BaL thread on BaL Mozart 39 (just a few days ago, how soon we forget...) re. Harnoncourt's Sony recording of the Mozart 39-41 as an "Instrumental Oratorium"........

It is such a shame those who haven't read Harnoncourt's arguments and references are so ready to trivialise them in this way. They are the result of long and deep considerations, not least regarding the thematic and motivic links between the three works, based on independent research by Peter Gulke going back to the 1990s.
At least try to study what Harnoncourt has to say, and take the ideas seriously before your rejection. Those who are so ready to describe various interpretational concepts or styles as egocentric or arrogant or licentious are often guilty of the very same thing in their dismissal. This is a Performance Art - there has to be an open space for imagination and renewal.

You can easily read the very extensive notes to the CMW/Harnoncourt Sony recording of 39-41 on Qobuz etc. Whatever you feel about the concept itself, they are very insightful about the music, and can only sharpen your listening.

I remain uncertain myself, about the concept of the Oratorium, but I must say the Last Three Symphonies work very well for me as a listening sequence, usually of course with an interval somewhere.... which isn't far from the concept itself.

"We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time."

***

[And I would add now that, after the wonderful OAE/Fischer presentation of 39-41 in concert the idea of the work as a 12-movement "Oratorium" or at least as a unified concept seems only stronger to me....In a way, it doesn't matter how you choose to describe it: the experience of listening to all three in a single concert, wherever you place an interval, is a very fulfilling one on every musical level I can think of; a Great Journey, a Great Adventure.

Like many other large scale, multi sectional cycles though, it doesn't rule out performances or hearings of individual works. Think of e.g. Lutosławski's Preludes & Fugue, Dusapin's 7 Solos for Orchestra, where you have the choice of section/order, but which offer a far richer experience heard complete (preferably with an interval in the case of Dusapin's vast, dense epic...!).
That experience of the great Mozart Trilogy has always been and will always be there to draw upon.
A great work of Art, but perhaps especially those of somewhat mysterious provenance or worldly intention, should feel like a space for adventure, invention and inspiration, actively at the performer, listener (or viewer, or reader) end....]

[Bryn]

Thanks for the tip re the Harnoncourt booklet via QOBUZ, Jayne. I only have the discs in the Sony Harnoncourt big box, which lacks those notes.

[Oakapple]

So what if they were not intended to be performed thus? I'm all for unconventional programming, especially anything that is not that tired old format of overture, concerto, interval, symphony. Having an interval halfway through the 40th when Mahler symphonies are usually performed without one - brilliant!

So here's a mad idea which I'm sure no one here will support but what the hey. If these three symphonies are all part of a whole, the Holy Trinity if you will, why not concoct a four-movement symphony out of them? I'd have 1st movement 40th, 2nd movement 41st, 3rd movement 39th and 4th movement 41st. I'd go to listen to it. It's so crazy it just might work and we might hear the music in a new way.