Beethoven Unleashed: The 1808 Concert

[cloughie]

As the 6th was premiered before the 5th, is anyone going to start a thread about renumbering the symphonies.

Don’t even think about it, messing around with Schubert’s numbering was a step too far and I ignored that one!

[Bryn]

Don’t even think about it, messing around with Schubert’s numbering was a step too far and I ignored that one!

Never mind Schubert. When i were a lad, Dvorak's 'New World' was his 5th.

[kernelbogey]

Anyone hear know of any plans for either HIPP concert performances or studio recordings of this concert programme? It'a the sort of thing Nimbus might have taken on in their prime.

As flagged up by Ferney, the Philarmonia under Esa-Pekka Salonen are performing a reconstruction of the same 1808 Vienna concert at RFH on 15 March. I don't what his/their HIPP credentials are, but it's good to hope.

[BBMmk2]

I’ve made a Playlist of this concert.

[Bryn]

As flagged up by Ferney, the Philarmonia under Esa-Pekka Salonen are performing a reconstruction of the same 1808 Vienna concert at RFH on 15 March. I don't what his/their HIPP credentials are, but it's good to hope.

In this instance, i was thinking of HIPP as including the sort of instrumental forces available to Beethoven for the 1808 concert, not just playing techniques.

[kernelbogey]

In this instance, i was thinking of HIPP as including the sort of instrumental forces available to Beethoven for the 1808 concert, not just playing techniques.

Well yes, quite: and I wonder why the Beeb didn't go the extra kilometre and do that for yesterday's broadcast. It's why I tried to make my comment about Salonen and the Phil hopeful....

[kernelbogey]

Slightly off-topic, but it was the interval feature: I had to switch off the Listening Service, trying in Getting to Grips with Beethoven to answer the koan-like question What makes Beethoven Beethoven? It was just un-listenable to [is there a single word for that?]. Too many audio clips of LvB bits - and for Volk's sake, Chuck Berry!!! - followed by the presenter's usual tortuous, OTT style. He just cannot avoid loading personal opinions, in extravagant metaphors, into his script as though they were fact. I've heard him do the same with Bach, and I just won't listen to him.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well yes, quite: and I wonder why the Beeb didn't go the extra kilometre and do that for yesterday's broadcast. It's why I tried to make my comment about Salonen and the Phil hopeful....

Probably/perhaps/mebbe because the Beeb has no "in-house" Period ensemble to call upon, so are reliant on groups like ... well, JEGgers' OR&R (are there any other HIPP Orchestras in the UK - the LCP seems a thing of the long-past??). So, if (as Bryn seems to have correctly surmised) they aren't putting on such an event, then the Beeb has to make do with what it has at its disposal.

[Nick Armstrong]

Slightly off-topic, but it was the interval feature: I had to switch off the Listening Service, trying in Getting to Grips with Beethoven to answer the koan-like question What makes Beethoven Beethoven? It was just un-listenable to [is there a single word for that?]. Too many audio clips of LvB bits - and for Volk's sake, Chuck Berry!!! - followed by the presenter's usual tortuous, OTT style. He just cannot avoid loading personal opinions, in extravagant metaphors, into his script as though they were fact. I've heard him do the same with Bach, and I just won't listen to him.

Nor will I. Got home part way through and thought it would be safe to switch on the radio for a spot of live LvB... but a syllable was enough to get the radio turned back off with an oath. Oaf.

[oddoneout]

There are all sorts of 'why didn't they' comments that could be levelled at the enterprise. I prefer to focus on two excellent Welsh based orchestras and assorted forces playing in an important Welsh venue on a notable date. I'm not Welsh but I just rather like the idea of the Principality getting first dibs... instead of London.
There will be more than enough opportunities for the HIPPsters to indulge over the coming months I'm sure.

[Ein Heldenleben]

From the blurb above for Getting to Grips with Beethoven.

“Beethoven: deaf for most of his life, unbearable egotist, flagrant opportunist and musical anarchist whose music reaches the heights of ecstasy”
The first assertion is debatable , the second is wrong , the third is meaningless , the fourth is wrong and the fifth all depends on what you mean by ecstasy.
I’m so glad I missed the programme . Liked the concert though ...

[kernelbogey]

There are all sorts of 'why didn't they' comments that could be levelled at the enterprise. I prefer to focus on two excellent Welsh based orchestras and assorted forces playing in an important Welsh venue on a notable date. I'm not Welsh but I just rather like the idea of the Principality getting first dibs... instead of London.

I agree with all of this. The two orchestras (perhaps some players in common) under the two conductors played excellently. In both symphonies there were some lovely details revealed, especially from the woodwinds. Jaime Martin, a flautist, in particular brought out some lovely woodwind solos in No 5*, as well as ensemble woodwind, in some cases new to me. (I'd add that I listen to LvB 5 as infequently as possible, as it is something of a warhorse. Whereas I've listened to LvB 6 scores, if not hundreds, of times: and still this performance revealed new detail.)

There will be more than enough opportunities for the HIPPsters to indulge over the coming months I'm sure.

I deny the label - whether with one or two Ps - but I certainly hope for something approaching a re-run of this concert with HIPP forces, style etc. That could be quite a revelation.

[bluestateprommer]

Anyone hear know of any plans for either HIPP concert performances or studio recordings of this concert programme? It'a the sort of thing Nimbus might have taken on in their prime.

If you are able to get to Hamburg on 9 February, the Balthasar Neumann Ensemble looks to oblige your request, with their recreation of the 1808 concert:

https://www.elbphilharmonie.de/en/whats-on/beethovens-1808-academy-concert/12605

There are a few seats left. More about the group: http://www.balthasar-neumann.com/en/...mann-ensemble/

Here in the US, one US orchestra so far this year is taking on the challenge, the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, Louis Langree and friends on Leap Day weekend:

https://www.cincinnatisymphony.org/tickets-and-events/buy-tickets/cso/1920-cso-season/beethoven-akademie-1808/

Given that US orchestras will start to announce their 2020-2021 season programs soon, starting next month, at a random uninformed guess, at least 5 US orchestras (of varying caliber and fame) will try it. Some may "cheat" by not doing the Akademie recreation in a day, but rather spreading it out over 2 concerts on 2 days during the weekend. I understand that the Albany Symphony will do that next year.

In calendar year 2020, Philippe Jordan, the Vienna Symphony and friends were actually first past the post for doing a recreation, 2 weekends ago:

https://www.wienersymphoniker.at/de/veranstaltung/jordan-wagner-kutrowatz-vondung-guertelschmied-clayton-mueller-brachmann-angelich

I'm with oddoneout (and later on, kb) in enjoying the experience and not worrying so much about presenter quibbles. Agree with kb that Jaime Martin gave the 5th some welcome freshness (I think that you meant "5" rather than "6"; Carlo Rizzi did the honors in 6, of course). JM's reading would probably reflect his part experiences with Harnoncourt and the COE in the Beethoven symphonies.

[Frances_iom]

I always assume that TS's role is to signal time to go for a ...
As it appears like many I find his style both in his regular slot and those when he is supposedly presenting the music and not pontificating about it to be a real turn off.

[vinteuil]

I always assume that TS's role is to signal time to go for a ...
As it appears like many I find his style both in his regular slot and those when he is supposedly presenting the music and not pontificating about it to be a real turn off.

... I don't think our teamsaint has done anything to deserve such harsh words!