Music editing - MuseScore

[Dave2002]

Does MuseScore allow you to import (or input from a keyboard) a simple midi file, and convert it to a score, then transpose and print?

Or is that the realm of different software?

Do you have a midi file ready to go, or can you create one easily?
If so, then it should work. Download MuseScore, set it running. You may have to initialise it with a dummy file - to force it to run. Then drag and drop the midi file over the file, and MuseScore should import the midi and also convert it to "notes". It can then be played using the Play button, and also transposed etc. When done, the modified versions - either midi or score can be exported.

Try it. It's free, so you've not a lot to lose.

[Dave2002]

I think you have some fundamental misunderstandings about how these things work.
Sibelius has various sets of instruments depending on which version you have , it will also play GM (General MIDI) sounds and other "virtual" instruments.
If you play about you CAN get the Sibelius sounds to sound "better" (tweak the Eq, change the reverb settings etc etc) but that's not really what it does.
If you want something to play your music then you need to invest time (and money) in things that do that. Just like getting any instrument.

I beg to differ - to an extent. There are things which Sibelius does quite well - perhaps better than almost any other packages. However, the video which you linked to points out major deficiencies with the user interface (UI), and I concur with the views expressed there. Re getting these tools to produce sounds, I agree that that's not primarily what their main aim is, but they can provide a somewhat basic representation of what the music would sound like if played by humans on "real" instruments. I am pretty sure they can also drive external hardware, such as a midi keyboard (though I've not tried that - yet) and take in input from such a keyboard (again, not tried that - yet). They should also be able to send data to a DAW (such as Logic Pro X - there is a YouTube video showing how to do that, but I think the techniques should work for other DAWs) - which may also have yet another set of virtual instruments, to allow a different form of editing and sonic representation.

The NotePerformer adjunct to Sibelius, which Avid also sell, gives significantly improved sound representations compared to the audio output of Sibelius. That was why I linked to the SoundCloud examples in msg 42. From a distance (such as in the next room), the renditions by NotePerformer sound almost like the "real" thing. Some are really quite good, others less so. I agree with alpie (msg 45) that these renditions can sound quite good, and a lot closer to orchestral sound than would have been possible some years ago.

[Dave2002]

This seems at first to be pretty good - Musescore sheet music
Four Scottish Dances, op. 59 | COMPLETE (Malcolm Arnold).

https://musescore.com/user/3060186/scores/5662019 - play it within MuseScore.

The first dance seems to go quite well in playback mode. I’m using my Pad Pro for this.
Then things go off completely, and what is played bears little resemblance to the printed notes. Very curious.

[Dave2002]

Someone had fun with this one - totally mad-

Musescore sheet music
Rise of the Bagpipes

https://musescore.com/user/22692556/scores/5643728

The tempo marking “crotchet = 2560” near the end - bonkers! Are the guys who do this exploiting bugs in the software?

[Richard Barrett]

There are things which Sibelius does quite well - perhaps better than almost any other packages.

The thing to bear in mind here is that the two contributors to this thread whose principal professional activity is composing music are Sibelius users, from which one can draw one's own conclusions.

No UI is perfect unless it's specifically designed around the needs of one particular user. We quickly get used to the infelicities of the machines we use every day, like for example the QWERTY keyboard itself.

If you want some kind of accurate playback you would have to invest in some sophisticated sample set like VSL no matter which notation software you'd be using.

[Dave2002]

The thing to bear in mind here is that the two contributors to this thread whose principal professional activity is composing music are Sibelius users, from which one can draw one's own conclusions.

Indeed, and I, and I hope others, are very grateful for your inputs.

One thing you don’t say is whether you (and others) use Sibelius exclusively. I suspect not - you may have a toolset of useful programs and hardware to facilitate your work, so there may be other software which also has utility for you and others.

Some of us here are not professional musicians and are trying to do different things, and also without running up excessive costs.

I can see that Sibelius does some things well, though re the User Interface, I and others do have quite a lot of experience of software and computing, and the UI in Sibelius isn’t really very good in its current state. That’s a pity. You and others would probably find it easier if it were improved, but maybe you don’t find that a high priority right now. You have found work around for the issues which might be troublesome.

There are different approaches to handling music using technology, and again I’d agree with you that getting a good (whatever that is) set of virtual instruments and samples could be helpful, but if we stick to the notion that some of the tools are primarily notation oriented, for the purpose of producing scores/notation which can be interpreted by human players, then there is less need for any form of accurate playback. However, it is remarkable that in some cases the outputs are perhaps good enough to to be used in some circumstances or applications. Amateur film makers, for example, could use soundtracks generated by such tools, until such time as they could persuade major film companies to lend them a full orchestra, conductors etc. for their next blockbuster.

[MrGongGong]

Indeed, and I, and I hope others, are very grateful for your inputs.

One thing you don’t say is whether you (and others) use Sibelius exclusively. I suspect not - you may have a toolset of useful programs and hardware to facilitate your work, so there may be other software which also has utility for you and others.
.

The last thing I used Sibelius for was this

I recorded a group of young people who had recently had cochlea implants talking about how their experiences of sound had changed before and after.
I used a piece of software (a couple of different things... i'm not Jonathan Harvey so can't nip over to IRCAM) to "translate" these into MIDI notes & timings.
I imported the MIDI files into Sibelius and did a bit of editing, transformation....I then exported them and imported them into Ableton and made phrases (using virtual instruments in Ableton but could have done that bit in Sibelius) that were combinations of the voice recordings and virtual instruments. I made variations of these... exported them all into audio files and imported those into Audiomulch to use in a performance............

BUT

Last time I wrote an orchestral piece (or did a cheesy arrangement for the village band) I opened Sibelius, created instruments and wrote the music directly then printed the parts ..... and off we go round the villages and pubs playing away (making sure that I had laminated the parts as the weather looks a bit iffy)....

[Dave2002]

I suspected as much. The first part of your post shows you have a bit of a tool kit there. I don't blame you, it's what anyone serious would do if using more than one tool gets the job done. Actually importing Midi files can be done in other tools - such as MuseScore - but you have Sibelius already, so that makes sense.

Re the second part, we're lucky to have tools available. Previous generations of composers may have had to make do with pen/pencil and paper, though some managed pretty well with those. I guess there was a 30-50 year period during which pen/pencil and paper were still used for new and original works, but photocopiers reduced the duplication and copy issues. Now musicians (and others) can use a whole swathe of different tools to save time.

[MrGongGong]

I suspected as much. The first part of your post shows you have a bit of a tool kit there. I don't blame you, it's what anyone serious would do if using more than one tool gets the job done. Actually importing Midi files can be done in other tools - such as MuseScore - but you have Sibelius already, so that makes sense.

It can ALL be done in other tools.... it's only numbers

But the first example is a fairly esoteric use of Sibelius
It you want to write "note based music" (as our chum Leigh would say ) then Sibelius is the way to go (for now).... unless you have lots of time on your hands.

There ARE lots of free tools that are fine .... I don't use Word / Excel etc as Open Office does all of those things perfectly well for me.
BUT I did buy Photoshop... GIMP doesn't quiet cut it IMV

[Dave2002]

I have a comprehensive toolkit for other activities.

Word processing: Word (don't use much), Open Office, Pages - sometimes, though not so much now, I use LaTeX.
Spreadsheets: Excel - I dislike this one less than most other spreadsheets
Presentations: Don't really do those any more

Photo editing: Affinity Photo, GIMP, Preview - mostly I use Affinity. I agree that GIMP isn't great. I use other tools for preference.
Graphics: Affinity Designer, AppleWorks/Clarisworks (use Snow Leopard version as otherwise obsolete)
Mail merge: Appleworks/Clarisworks as above

Video editing: Premiere, Final Cut Pro X (yes I did buy that one ..), iMovie, Compressor, Handbrake
Audio editing: Audacity - mostly, plus a few others

Some tools are very specialised - and some I buy or acquire as I need them.

Now of course I use MuseScore for various purposes, as I mentioned. If I can get an affordable version of Sibelius I'll probably do so, but I'm not in a hurry.

[Dave2002]

I found this page about the BBC SO - and a new release of virtual instruments - https://www.musictech.net/reviews/sp...hestra-review/

A bit pricey though, except for those who really need it.

There are also several YouTubes -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtZyWtRRaI Guy Michelson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1nfi6zEAl0

A pity really, that the Maida Vale studios will be closed down - https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...to-east-london

In the meantime I'm looking for different (virtual) instruments - older ones - recorders mostly, but I'd take sackbuts, crumhorns and shawms as well.

[silvestrione]

All this is over my head, but I do play Schubert's unfinished sonata movement F sharp minor D 571, which after a sublime development, cuts out just before what is obviously going to be a recapitulation in the subdominant, B minor. Is there some (free?) software that would translate the exposition into B minor (and the other appropriate keys, for the modulations in the exposition)? If I found the piano score online and in - putted it somehow? And which would allow some tinkering to vary it, etc.

I'd be most grateful for any suggestions, possibilities.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't know about "free", but SIBELIUS software will let you do all this very easily and quickly, silvestrione, so long as you have the original fragment extant in a SIBELIUS file/score (you can play this "into" the software via a MIDI keyboard and it will produce the "score" on the screen. Copy the bars from the Expo that you want to transpose > paste them in the place where Schubert finishes > click on "Transpose" and "down a perfect fifth" and lo! You can then change as many details as you like - including inserting extra bars if you're feeling radical!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I should mention, perhaps, that I use SIBELIUS 6, rather than any more recent version - from what others have said here, it was wise NOT to update!

[Dave2002]

All this is over my head, but I do play Schubert's unfinished sonata movement F sharp minor D 571, which after a sublime development, cuts out just before what is obviously going to be a recapitulation in the subdominant, B minor. Is there some (free?) software that would translate the exposition into B minor (and the other appropriate keys, for the modulations in the exposition)? If I found the piano score online and in - putted it somehow? And which would allow some tinkering to vary it, etc.

I'd be most grateful for any suggestions, possibilities.

Musescore should do this quite easily. Re input - do you have a midi keyboard? If so, you could play it and input to a DAW, or probably directly into either Musescore or Sibelius. Even if you can't input with a midi keyboard, you can, with some effort, get the music in. Also, some else may have already produced a midi version if you're lucky, so you could import that, and then edit/tweak any of the sections that you needed to - which would save quite a lot of effort. MuseScore on a PC or Mac is essentially free, so it needn't cost you much at all.

Once you have the music in either MuseScore or Sibelius, then selecting sections and transposing them is a doddle. Sibelius of course may cost you - which is why I've been suggesting MuseScore. If you are a student (possible, but perhaps unlikely) then the student/academic version of Sibelius can be fairly cheap. Also, if you don't want many staves - which seems likely if you're just going to do one piano work, then you could try Sibelius First, which is free - but it can only cope with four (4) lines. If you can figure out what you want quickly, you might be able to get the work done using the full version of Sibelius in the trial version, though you would have to become proficient quite quickly and work to a time limit. If you are going to take this up seriously, and write a score with 40 parts, then you need either the full version of Sibelius (quite costly, unless you can get a deal) or MuseScore. Some DAWs may also have features which will work, though many work with a midi piano roll style editor, and don't have a really decent notation editor - which you probably need. For examples, Reaper and Garageband have notation editors - if you know where to find them in their interfaces, but these may be a bit rudimentary compared with the others mentioned. Logic Pro X probably has a better notation editor than some of the DAWS, but really for the type of work you are considering you do need either Sibelius, or something very similar.

If that's not feasible there are other ways to get the score in. Once that's done, it should be easy enough to do. For example, there is also software which claims to be able to create midi files by scanning in scores - though I don't know how reliable or good such software is. If such software can get even 80% of the notes scanned in correctly, then it might not be so hard to correct the remaining 20%, and then do the transposition and edits you want.

I couldn't find a midi version, with a quick look, though I did find the music score at https://www.free-scores.com/download....php?pdf=1437#

I hope this helps.