Music editing - MuseScore

[Dave2002]

Have many here tried to create/edit musical notation (fairly standard sort) - not the fancy wallpaper varieties ...?

I was struggling until this morning, when I had another go at MuseScore - see https://musescore.org/en

There are some snags, and different versions, and some things are a bit tricky, but actually once a basic line is entered, and a few basics are sorted, it becomes a breeze.

Today I entered one line of a piece which our group may play later this week - OK - it's only 17 bars long, but I was able to change the key almost instantaneouly into "disgusting" versions with 7 flats or 7 sharps, and change from treble clef back to bass clef - which is where the piece started before I reentered it. Now I need to master writing the whole four part thing out, and selecting off individual parts. I think having got this far it shouldn't be too difficult.

The one feature I've not succeeded with completely yet is providing different dynamic markings for the repeat section - which in the original simply says "p repeat f" - though even that shouldn't be too hard.

Marks which I assume are for string players, such as v and 0 and numbers above notes may force me to look at the manual.

Oh - MuseScore can play what I've written, including the repeat - though without the dynamic shading. I had to split some bars to get the repeats to work, and also find out how to delete trailing empy bars. Not too difficult when one finds the clues to use the "Tools" menu.

[Dave2002]

I have now managed to get the piece I was working on into MuseScore, and figured out how to change the instrumentation. There are a number of quirks of the system, but there are work-arounds. Changing instruments sometimes puts the notation into too high or too low a notation. That can be fixed quite easily by using Tools-> Transpose - keep the key/pitch the same, and use the up/down buttons. Editing is (arguably) non-destructive - it is possible to rewind quite a few changes - but it is also possible to screw up the score completely. If not sure, it's best to save the file very frequently, and keep versions with different names.

I suspect that the Mac version is less well known than the Windows one, and there may be some slight, but annoying differences - particularly with the keyboard operation.

I would have liked a Lock feature - but I note some discussion about this within the MuseScore community, and maybe some resistance to doing that. Perhaps also, others in the group have found other ways of protecting their work against accidental changes, or simply use the rename and save version I've just suggested.

I don't know how this system compares with other systems, such as Sibelius and Fanfare, or whether those really are a lot better, but on the other hand MuseScore does work quite well if one can live with the oddities, and it is (more or less) free. There is a charge for a subscription, which allows access to the on-line community, and sharing of scores.

I decided yesterday that for $29 (offer) it was worthwhile to save my time.

[MrGongGong]

I think it all depends on how much time/money you have on your hands

If you use notation frequently and need it to work in collaboration with others then Sibelius is the way to go IMV (though I'm still on V6 which is fine for my needs)
Do you need to do things like extract parts , deal with multiple transpositions etc quickly ? If so then the cheap / free options (Musescore, Lillypond . Dorico) are probably not what you need.
BUT if you want to do simple things then fine

This might be useful

https://composerstoolbox.com/2018/08/16/musescore-lilypond-dorico-user-reviews/

[Dave2002]

I think it all depends on how much time/money you have on your hands

If you use notation frequently and need it to work in collaboration with others then Sibelius is the way to go IMV (though I'm still on V6 which is fine for my needs)
Do you need to do things like extract parts , deal with multiple transpositions etc quickly ? If so then the cheap / free options (Musescore, Lillypond . Dorico) are probably not what you need.
BUT if you want to do simple things then fine

This might be useful

https://composerstoolbox.com/2018/08...-user-reviews/

I always thought Sibelius was the way to go, but as I've never used it I don't know. Also, I had a look at a version a few days back, and it didn't seem to be compatible with the file systems on my MacBook - which has SSD memory. Maybe the latest pro-version does, but the info suggested it wouldn't work with AFPS (solid state) or Mac OS Journaled formats - though perhaps that was only restricted for the case sensitive variants.

Re transposing, after much fiddling about, I discovered how to do it quickly and almost painlessly in MuseScore. and also discovered how to change instrumentation - again it's very quick. I just tried exporting parts to see how well it would work. It works, but there is yet another bug. Basically, it seems to forget which instruments are playing if the instruments have changed during the edit process. Maybe it would work propertly if the instrumentation is known completely at the start of the process, so no changes are made. Additionally, note that although there are many instruments included, a newbie might not notice this, and find this confusing or annoying. For example, if one wants a score with a mandolin and a theorbo, they won't appear in the most obvious ("Common") list during the set up process, but they are there if the "All Instruments" list is selected. It's easy to miss this point, and it seems that it might take some people several months to find out/notice that.

However, for amateur groups with one or two tech people to help this is a heck of a lot easier than having to write out the notes. The learning curve is one or two days - maybe longer for someone who has limited technical expertise.

Perhaps converting from MuseScore to Sibelius re a new learning curve wouldn't be too difficult, and hopefully it wouldn't have the rather niggly glitches which MuseScore has. What is the current price for a good version of Sibelius? It's perhaps not unaffordable, but there wouldn't be a need for everyone in a small amateur performing group to have it, surely.

Also note that the MuseScore system could work for other groups, even vocal groups or mixed voice and instrument groups. There are surely many amateur groups like that.

I'll look at the reviews you suggested. Thanks for that.

[MrGongGong]

I always thought Sibelius was the way to go, but as I've never used it I don't know. Also, I had a look at a version a few days back, and it didn't seem to be compatible with the file systems on my MacBook - which has SSD memory. Maybe the latest pro-version does, but the info suggested it wouldn't work with AFPS (solid state) or Mac OS Journaled formats - though perhaps that was only restricted for the case sensitive variants.
.

Works on mine OK which has 1TB SSD and i'm not on the latest version at all (nor am I on the latest OSX version)

The thing I like about Sibelius is that (for most purposes) it does simply work and is quick and simple.
Personally I'm happy with V6 though I have an issue with it crashing unless I log off and onto a new user account on my main machine ... which is obviously something in the OS rather than Sibelius and i've not had time to fix it...

[Dave2002]

Works on mine OK which has 1TB SSD and i'm not on the latest version at all (nor am I on the latest OSX version)

The thing I like about Sibelius is that (for most purposes) it does simply work and is quick and simple.

I'll check that out, and if I decide it's affordable (for me) I'll buy it. I'm not on the latest OS X version either, but I do have APFS now set up. I assume that like the MuseScore thing I've been playing with, it has a play facililty which drives some form of in-built synthesiser. The score I've been working with has cellos - but I have tried other instruments. I've never really done anything like this before. It's really good to be able to put bits together, and get an approximation to what they might sound like with real instruments. If Sibelius can do all this and it's an order of magnitude easier than MuseScore - which it might be - then I'll go for it. There's always the danger though that it could simply present a different can of worms - different users, different software - different (but also annoying) problems!

I'm on the case - but will probably shelve this for today now.

[Richard Barrett]

FWIW I use Sibelius too (currently version 8.5.1 running under OS10.12.6) and as MrGG says it just works. I was a late adopter among professionals and started using it in 2009, previous to which I had always done everything by hand. Indeed I switched to Sibelius at the point where I realised it actually could do everything that I had previously been doing by hand, and some things a lot more easily; some other things have required quite some headscratching and fiddly work to achieve but I've always found a way.

[cloughie]

FWIW I use Sibelius too (currently version 8.5.1 running under OS10.12.6) and as MrGG says it just works. I was a late adopter among professionals and started using it in 2009, previous to which I had always done everything by hand. Indeed I switched to Sibelius at the point where I realised it actually could do everything that I had previously been doing by hand, and some things a lot more easily; some other things have required quite some headscratching and fiddly work to achieve but I've always found a way.

I use Muse and Sibelius, mostly for song arranging. Both are good but Muse seems to stretch more when inputting lyrics.

[Dave2002]

I use Muse and Sibelius, mostly for song arranging. Both are good but Muse seems to stretch more when inputting lyrics.

Hi - do you find Muse has more quirks than Sibelius, or are they broadly similar? Some of the "features" in Muse are a real pain, but with a memory transplant (human one, that is) one can remember enough to avoid some of them. So far I suspect that I really have spent more time on Muse than it would have taken to write out the music I'm working on (or copy bits of it selectively) - but then people would have to cope with my writing - which is often a source of complaint. I figure that once I've learnt how to use these tools that things will go a lot quicker in future.

[Dave2002]

I got a bit futher with using MuseScore, and then I wanted to adjust the page layout. I found this YouTube tutorial by Christian Collins pretty helpful - https://youtu.be/GMlPsnMbAoY

It's quite long - around 20 minutes, but mentions parts of the software that I've not met before. Looks very useful.

[cloughie]

Hi - do you find Muse has more quirks than Sibelius, or are they broadly similar? Some of the "features" in Muse are a real pain, but with a memory transplant (human one, that is) one can remember enough to avoid some of them. So far I suspect that I really have spent more time on Muse than it would have taken to write out the music I'm working on (or copy bits of it selectively) - but then people would have to cope with my writing - which is often a source of complaint. I figure that once I've learnt how to use these tools that things will go a lot quicker in future.

I’m not especially quick with Muse but for me certainly better than writing it out, and for amending or changing my mind for harmonies. Like most things the more I use it the more efficient I get - but I still have those ‘now how do I do that’ moments. Very good for transposing. What I could do with is a way of copying pdf music scores into Muse.

[MrGongGong]

I’m not especially quick with Muse but for me certainly better than writing it out, and for amending or changing my mind for harmonies. Like most things the more I use it the more efficient I get - but I still have those ‘now how do I do that’ moments. Very good for transposing. What I could do with is a way of copying pdf music scores into Muse.

Like this ?

https://www.sibelius.com/products/photoscore/lite.html

[MrGongGong]

Like this ?

https://www.sibelius.com/products/photoscore/lite.html

(ripe for abusing for compositional porpoises, as are some of the other tools )

[Dave2002]

(ripe for abusing for compositional porpoises, as are some of the other tools )

Looks like Sibelius is mostly going over to a subscription model now. Perhaps fortunately there are deals right now (the "dreaded" Black Friday ...), though the web site for choosing and paying seems a bit clunky, and the shopping basket doesn't seem to work well - in Firefox/Mac at least.

Still, this stuff does look affordable now - even if I don't like subscription business models much.

What's not totally clear is what the Ultimate version offers over the 16 stave version. If it's simply more staves, then for me it's probably not worth paying for, but if it has a lot of other bells and whistles not included in the 16 stave software, then it could be worth it. The PDF scanning extra could be worth having, but what else is included - or not?

I don't want to pay for a de-luxe version with features I'll never use, but OTOH I don't want to choose a cut-down version only to discover later that something I really could do with isn't included. The number of staves isn't such an issue for me at present - but access to a full feature set might be.

[MrGongGong]

Looks like Sibelius is mostly going over to a subscription model now. Perhaps fortunately there are deals right now (the "dreaded" Black Friday ...), though the web site for choosing and paying seems a bit clunky, and the shopping basket doesn't seem to work well - in Firefox/Mac at least.

Still, this stuff does look affordable now - even if I don't like subscription business models much.

What's not totally clear is what the Ultimate version offers over the 16 stave version. If it's simply more staves, then for me it's probably not worth paying for, but if it has a lot of other bells and whistles not included in the 16 stave software, then it could be worth it. The PDF scanning extra could be worth having, but what else is included - or not?

I don't want to pay for a de-luxe version with features I'll never use, but OTOH I don't want to choose a cut-down version only to discover later that something I really could do with isn't included. The number of staves isn't such an issue for me at present - but access to a full feature set might be.

I'm not sure either.
I have V6
I would find 16 staves too restricting even when i'm making cheesy arrangements for my village band (alternative clarinet parts for those who started playing 6 months ago and a mixture of clefs for those who are used to brass band style parts etc etc).
I'm not keen on any software that requires internet access to work....I often work in quite remote places (bits of Scotland) and off to India in January where I have no idea whether I will have internet where I'm working ...(it looks like one of the gigs might be in a tent in the Rajasthani desert )