Music editing - MuseScore

[Dave2002]

I'd be most grateful for any suggestions, possibilities.

Further to my previous reply, I'm taking it upon myself to try to encode this piece up in MuseScore as an exercise. So far I'm up to bar 12, but getting faster, so might get this done in a day or two. It's quite interesting as I have to find ways to get things done, but I think I'm managing, with a lot of help from search engines, and if I spend another hour on this I might get to the bottom of the first page.

Once this is done, you might want to PM me, and I'll send you the score/midi file - though I do have other things to do, so this might not happen this week. Let's see what progress I can make in the time available. With Christmas in the way it may get delayed, though as an alternative to watching "holiday" films and other domestic related activities I may find doing this preferable.

If you PM me right away, you'll probably find my inbox full, so leave it for a while.

[Dave2002]

Update on the score input.

I got down to bar 28 and then hit a problem which I've not figured how to solve yet. In the Right hand there's an A minim over a crotchet rest - effectively the RH splits into two parts. I can do chords as long as there isn't anything too tricky - such as part of the chord being a different length, but here the crude techniques I've tried so far haven't worked. Similar issues will also apply at bars 32-36. This "problem" is slowing me down, as otherwise I could get to the bottom of the first page in next to no time.

The playback of bars 1 to 28 is OK, apart from the tied notes at bars 14 and 16-18, which MuseScore plays back as separate notes - but the notation seems correct.

I did also figure out some of the tricksier notation - how to get an E sharp - which at some points the program kept replacing by F.

[MrGongGong]

I did also figure out some of the tricksier notation - how to get an E sharp - which at some points the program kept replacing by F.

It's not the same note (I wish I had 50p for every time i've had to explain that one)
That is a problem with many things that are designed to "help"

[Dave2002]

It's not the same note (I wish I had 50p for every time i've had to explain that one)
That is a problem with many things that are designed to "help"

I agree. MuseScore also does something odd - in bars 18 and 19, LH , if one changes the first note to E sharp, then the following E (which should be E sharp) gets a natural sign, but the program seems to have a sort of memory effect, and with a modicum of fiddling the natural sign will disappear again. Bit quirky.

I know it's not the same note - theoretically, but on a piano keyboard it'll be the same (unless it's a very odd one which somehow uses different tuning for different keys ... - do such things exist?). I am trying to get the score as written, not just as it might sound on a keyboard.

The overlapping note/rest issue still remains.

[silvestrione]

Thanks for these responses, and of course mighty thanks, Dave, for your efforts with the Schubert! The rest under the minim is not essential for my purposes, if that helps!

I'll PM you later in the week.

[Dave2002]

I think I may have cracked the overlapping rest/minims etc. problem. The thing to do is to set up another voice - the little numbers 1 2 3 4 near the right hand side of the tool/menu bar thingy represent voices, and there can be more than one per stave. Note though that there always (seemingly) has to be a voice 1, and things might get confused if voices converge. For examples, at bar 29 the D minim in the RH - does it matter if it's represented by voice 1 or voice 2? Similarly with the F sharp minim in bar 31. Musescore might try to do odd things if the voices get mixed up, such as putting in extra rests which look ugly. Anyway - looks solvable now and I've now got the thing playing down to around bar 34, so with that breakthrough in understanding should be easier for the rest of the page. However, now I have to go out to the shops!

There are other tricks which can be used, such as using several staves, writing each voice out on its own stave, then merging the staves/voices and afterwards deleting the staves which are redundant or otherwise not needed.

[MrGongGong]

A quick question Dave
How much do you value your time ?
I mean, if you were working and being paid by the hour how much (roughly) would you charge ?

What you seem to be struggling with is something that Sibelius does very easily and quickly

[silvestrione]

I think I may have cracked the overlapping rest/minims etc. problem. The thing to do is to set up another voice - the little numbers 1 2 3 4 near the right hand side of the tool/menu bar thingy represent voices, and there can be more than one per stave. Note though that there always (seemingly) has to be a voice 1, and things might get confused if voices converge. For examples, at bar 29 the D minim in the RH - does it matter if it's represented by voice 1 or voice 2? Similarly with the F sharp minim in bar 31. Musescore might try to do odd things if the voices get mixed up, such as putting in extra rests which look ugly. Anyway - looks solvable now and I've now got the thing playing down to around bar 34, so with that breakthrough in understanding should be easier for the rest of the page. However, now I have to go out to the shops!

There are other tricks which can be used, such as using several staves, writing each voice out on its own stave, then merging the staves/voices and afterwards deleting the staves which are redundant or otherwise not needed.

Magic! Sounds great. The D minim should be both voices, of course, if that's possible.

[Andrew Slater]

Update on the score input.

The playback of bars 1 to 28 is OK, apart from the tied notes at bars 14 and 16-18, which MuseScore plays back as separate notes - but the notation seems correct.

You've probably inadvertently used a slur - you can put a tie in by selecting the first note and then typing "+" (without the inverted commas) or using the tie symbol in the menu (next to the crotchet rest symbol in my Linux version).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

You've probably inadvertently used a slur - you can put a tie in by selecting the first note and then typing "+" (without the inverted commas) or using the tie symbol in the menu (next to the crotchet rest symbol in my Linux version).

- the shortcut key for a tie on SIBELIUS on Windows is the "Enter" key on the numerical keypad on the right of the keyboard. (Slur is the "s" key.)

[Dave2002]

A quick question Dave
How much do you value your time ?
I mean, if you were working and being paid by the hour how much (roughly) would you charge ?

What you seem to be struggling with is something that Sibelius does very easily and quickly

No - I don't believe that. What does the work quickly is a tool - in your case probably Sibelius, plus also a trained and skilful expert - probably you.

Considering I've only been using MuseScore for a few days, and have made reasonable progress - for my purposes - in that time, I don't think that's too terrible. I'm not trying to make a living out of this. I think it would have taken just as long with Sibelius - and indeed, I have compared the two directly - but with only a few days exposure to each there's no way I would have the expertise of someone who has been using any of these tools for years.

Having good tools certainly helps, and some tools are better than others, but knowing how to use them, and what to use them for, is also an important part of the operation.

[Dave2002]

You've probably inadvertently used a slur - you can put a tie in by selecting the first note and then typing "+" (without the inverted commas) or using the tie symbol in the menu (next to the crotchet rest symbol in my Linux version).

Thanks Andrew. That does indeed seem to have been the case. I can't say it was inadvertent - I just didn't realise that the system would treat the notation that way. Now I know the difference I'll watch out for this in future.

I fixed the offending bars which now play as I think they were intended to do.

Do you use MuseScore or other similar systems? If so, what do you use them for?

[cloughie]

No - I don't believe that. What does the work quickly is a tool - in your case probably Sibelius, plus also a trained and skilful expert - probably you.

Considering I've only been using MuseScore for a few days, and have made reasonable progress - for my purposes - in that time, I don't think that's too terrible. I'm not trying to make a living out of this. I think it would have taken just as long with Sibelius - and indeed, I have compared the two directly - but with only a few days exposure to each there's no way I would have the expertise of someone who has been using any of these tools for years.

Having good tools certainly helps, and some tools are better than others, but knowing how to use them, and what to use them for, is also an important part of the operation.

Quite right Dave, and though MrGG would probably not admit it, he was once a novice! Some learning curves are steeper than others - and age is a factor.

[MrGongGong]

No - I don't believe that. What does the work quickly is a tool - in your case probably Sibelius, plus also a trained and skilful expert - probably you.

Considering I've only been using MuseScore for a few days, and have made reasonable progress - for my purposes - in that time, I don't think that's too terrible. I'm not trying to make a living out of this. I think it would have taken just as long with Sibelius - and indeed, I have compared the two directly - but with only a few days exposure to each there's no way I would have the expertise of someone who has been using any of these tools for years.

Having good tools certainly helps, and some tools are better than others, but knowing how to use them, and what to use them for, is also an important part of the operation.

Indeed
Any rich fool can buy a Stradivarius
but my point was that you seem to be struggling with something that is simple in Sibelius

[cloughie]

Indeed
Any rich fool can buy a Stradivarius
but my point was that you seem to be struggling with something that is simple in Sibelius

My point is that whether you are using sibelius or muse - I have both - building up competence and confidence in using them does not happen overnight! Yes things may become simpler dreckly!