Sentimental - Beautiful - Kitsch

[Richard Barrett]

Gosh, here I am defending Rachmaninov and Colin Matthews... I think I'd better see a doctor.

[ahinton]

Gosh, here I am defending Rachmaninov and Colin Matthews... I think I'd better see a doctor.

Ha ha! But you're not "defending" either, actually; you are simply presenting facts (and I'd already mentioned the one about Colin Matthews above).

[Stanfordian]

No, it really is that significant, unless the "taste" of music is all you're interested in, but you must be aware that music is far more than just an agreeable sensation like eating chocolate. My father, who was not very interested in music but as they say "liked the sound it made", once described his impression of Beethoven's symphonies to me in terms of big tunes with less interesting bits in between. If that's all you want from music then Addinsell is indeed just as good as Rachmaninov, but you don't have to be much of a connoisseur to appreciate not only Rachmaninov's "big tunes" but also the way he develops and contextualises them over a more extended timescale.

Colin Matthews wasn't attempting to copy Holst's style. He spoke of "the challenge of trying to write a new movement for The Planets without attempting to impersonate Holst". That seems quite clear.

Matthews' needn't have bothered as Pluto isn't classed as a full size planet anymore owing to its downgrading by the International Astronomical Union.

[vinteuil]

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Matthews' needn't have bothered as Pluto isn't classed as a full size planet anymore owing to its downgrading by the International Astronomical Union.

Matthews needn't have bothered as Holst's project was astrological and not astronomical.

Matthews needn't have bothered as Holst's composition is complete and "entire of itself".

Matthews needn't have bothered coz he's no Holst.


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[Stanfordian]

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Matthews needn't have bothered as Holst's project was astrological and not astronomical.

Matthews needn't have bothered as Holst's composition is complete and "entire of itself".

Matthews needn't have bothered coz he's no Holst.


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Those too!

[ahinton]

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Matthews needn't have bothered as Holst's project was astrological and not astronomical.

Matthews needn't have bothered as Holst's composition is complete and "entire of itself".

Matthews needn't have bothered coz he's no Holst.

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/arts/music/08plut.html

https://www.fabermusic.com/repertoire/pluto-the-renewer-3427

So in your view should CM have turned down the commission? Be that as it may or may not, should Kent Nagano and Hallé Orchestra also "not have bothered"? Has CM ever claimed or sought to pretend to be another Holst? The above do at least provide some insights into his own views and this project. As for The Planets as written by Holst being 'complete and "entire of itself"', that might well be, but then is Bruckner's final symphony in its truncated three-movement form "'complete and "entire of itself"'?

[Stanfordian]

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/a...ic/08plut.html

https://www.fabermusic.com/repertoire/pluto-the-renewer-3427

So in your view should CM have turned down the commission? Be that as it may or may not, should Kent Nagano and Hallé Orchestra also "not have bothered"? Has CM ever claimed to be another Holst? The above do at least provide some insights into his own views and this project.

I can see you are lining up to kick me. Surely I'm entitled to a tongue in cheek viewpoint. In truth I couldn't really care less if it is classed as a planet or not.

It's just the other day at a talk I attended on astronomy I was told Pluto is not a classed as a full size planet anymore.

[ahinton]

I can see you are lining up to kick me. Surely I'm entitled to a tongue in cheek opinion.

Not at all! Just asking a few questions and providing some relevant background information including CM's own words on the subject, that's all!

[Richard Tarleton]

Well, Brian Cox thinks there could be life there.....

[jayne lee wilson]

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Matthews needn't have bothered as Holst's project was astrological and not astronomical.

Matthews needn't have bothered as Holst's composition is complete and "entire of itself".

Matthews needn't have bothered coz he's no Holst.


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Latest on Pluto........(not a simple astronomical concept, ongoing...)

https://www.newscientist.com/article-topic/pluto/

What does it mean to say "Colin Matthews is no Holst"? Or The Planets "entire of itself"? Is the ever-changing, multidimensional Universe "entire of itself"?
Artworks change through time as we experience & perceive them.

Matthews is a significant orchestral & chamber composer who has written several wonderful, striking and memorable works... (too little played, but many available, should you wish to take the trouble to actually listen, on NMC).

I've been taping or latterly buying the recordings/concerts since at least the 1990s.....

As for the Pluto movement itself.... don't ask why, ask why not?
Holst was a very adventurous & imaginative composer with wide-ranging interests....

I think he would have liked the idea of updating his own take on The Planets....
He might have enjoyed the idea of another composer writing something on "Voyager" or "Voyager 2"..........

[Stanfordian]

Well, Brian Cox thinks there could be life there.....

What has that got to do with the price of fish

[jayne lee wilson]

What has that got to do with the price of fish

Not sure we'd find fish down there, but John Luther Adams might be inspired to write "Subsurface Ocean Becoming...."....

I think we could do with the discovery of alien life-forms; that would put us in our place, wouldn't it?

[ahinton]

I think we could do with the discovery of alien life-forms; that would put us in our place, wouldn't it?

Some of them might be lurking closer to us than we might think (no names mentioned, naturellement)...

Agree with your remarks about Colin Matthews. Whether Holst might "have liked the idea of updating his own take on The Planets...." is open to question; it is just that, upon the discovery of Pluto, he showed no obvious interest in doing so himself.

Mindful of what lay behind my reference to Bruckner 9 above, perhaps there are some who might say that Tony Payne should "not have bothered" to put together Elgar's Third Symphony; I wonder if I can think of any...

[ahinton]

What has that got to do with the price of fish

If there might be any fish there (which Jayne suspects there are not), they'd probably be affordable only to members of the Plutocracy...

That said, never ind the price of fish, it's unclear what Pluto the planet or indeed Pluto the Renewer have to do with the thread topic...

[jayne lee wilson]

If there might be any fish there (which Jayne suspects there are not), they'd probably be affordable only to members of the Plutocracy...

That said, never ind the price of fish, it's unclear what Pluto the planet or indeed Pluto the Renewer have to do with the thread topic...

I think we should all order Fish & Kitsch in The Restaurant at the End of The Universe....