Is there a reason ?

[MrGongGong]

Why we aren't allowed to talk about the things that will profoundly affect the cultural landscape of the UK ?

[Dave2002]

I suppose the thought police have been out again.

[oddoneout]

Perhaps because the political virus responsible causes unpleasant reactions in those encountering it and prevention is seen as preferable to cure?
Or to put it another way, the debate tends to descend into unpleasantness; I find it frustrating, but it's not unique to this forum.

[Bella Kemp]

Perhaps because the political virus responsible causes unpleasant reactions in those encountering it and prevention is seen as preferable to cure?
Or to put it another way, the debate tends to descend into unpleasantness; I find it frustrating, but it's not unique to this forum.

That's really well said oddoneout!

[Dave2002]

I don’t always agree with mrgg but I don’t think things had gone too far, and most of the other stuff which gets written about round here is relatively inconsequential. We may find out in a week or so if there really has been cause for concern - though maybe not. I’m not holding my breath any way.

Being ostriches is comfortable until you get sand up your nostrils and in your ears.

[MrGongGong]

Perhaps because the political virus responsible causes unpleasant reactions in those encountering it and prevention is seen as preferable to cure?
Or to put it another way, the debate tends to descend into unpleasantness; I find it frustrating, but it's not unique to this forum.

It is unpleasant
BUT it's a huge deal for MUSIC

On other social media there has been much (justifiable IMV) anger at yesterdays announcement on FoM from many of the musicians who the folks in here listen to all the time.
But in here ? not a mention

[Dave2002]

I blinked for a second at FoM in the post above. Freedom of Movement. The UK “wants” to play hardball.

Some details here -' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49393556 Don’t read it if you’re not interested or bothered by this.

If this is of concern here, in return I’ll make a pledge to not bother to read, or make any fuss, about the posts on latest Jazz or CD releases or music which I have no interest in, but I won’t ask for them to be shut down or removed.

[gurnemanz]

Why we aren't allowed to talk about the things that will profoundly affect the cultural landscape of the UK ?

I contributed a link to an article in the FT which I thought was relevant and of interest. I was rather baffled when I checked back later in the day to find that whole thread had vanished.

[doversoul1]

On other social media there has been much (justifiable IMV) anger at yesterdays announcement on FoM from many of the musicians who the folks in here listen to all the time.
But in here ? not a mention

I am very much aware that this is a completely wrong thing to say to you but here goes.

Maybe this forum isn’t that sort / a wrong sort of social media.

[MrGongGong]

I am very much aware that this is a completely wrong thing to say to you but here goes.

Maybe this forum isn’t that sort of social media.

OOOOOOOOO yes it is


(i'm doing the music for the village panto this year )

The message I take is that many of the folks who consider themselves to be "music lovers" really don't give a sh*t about those who actually make the music they listen to as long as they can keep consuming it.

[doversoul1]

OOOOOOOOO yes it is


(i'm doing the music for the village panto this year )

The message I take is that many of the folks who consider themselves to be "music lovers" really don't give a sh*t about those who actually make the music they listen to as long as they can keep consuming it.

We do different things when we are in the kitchen from when we are sitting by the fire etc..

[Master Jacques]

The message I take is that many of the folks who consider themselves to be "music lovers" really don't give a sh*t about those who actually make the music they listen to as long as they can keep consuming it.

I fear that may often be true: and consuming it for free, too. I also fear - extrapolating from some comments on the assumed financial ease of performers - that many "classical music lovers" would be mortified, when they discovered how many once-famous "names" subsist on aid, charitable handouts from such quietly effective organisations as the Musicians' Benevolent Fund.

There was more awareness of these realities in the past. When I glance on occasion at journals like Gramophone and BBC's Classical Music Magazine nowadays, I see a lightweight, Samuel Smiles society where God's in His Heaven and All's Right with the World. And judging from the grief I'm told the editor of Opera gets for his excellent and plain-spoken political editorials (cancelled subscriptions are the least of it) many music lovers see the drug they crave as an escape from the real world, rather than an engagement with it. Which is only fine up to a point, in my opinion.

[oddoneout]

OOOOOOOOO yes it is


(i'm doing the music for the village panto this year )

The message I take is that many of the folks who consider themselves to be "music lovers" really don't give a sh*t about those who actually make the music they listen to as long as they can keep consuming it.

Human nature in a consumer society, and nothing new sadly. Awareness of what lies behind the 'I want and I'm going to have it' is increasing, but arguably continues to fight a losing battle against the sheer weight of those(whether corporate or individual) who want, with considerations about human welfare, environment etc getting buried or distorted. Want does not include need, that's a different although interconnected issue.
I've often thought however that it's unfortunate that art endeavour in adverse situations, of whatever kind, sometimes(often?) acquires a certain cachet and risks perpetuating the 'one must suffer for one's art' mindset. It's not a big jump from that to the( possibly subconscious) view that it's the norm for all, rather than undesirable or unacceptable. Then there's the vox pop take on things which is that because certain people seem to make a lot of money from 'something anyone could do'(my toddler paints better pictures, my cousin's got a really good voice/plays brilliantly) everyone makes a decent living and there's no problem.
Against that backdrop, the idea that adding layers of uncertainty/lack of funding/additional bureaucracy could tip many over the edge between just about earning some kind of living and not, won't register.

[jayne lee wilson]

I fear that may often be true: and consuming it for free, too. I also fear - extrapolating from some comments on the assumed financial ease of performers - that many "classical music lovers" would be mortified, when they discovered how many once-famous "names" subsist on aid, charitable handouts from such quietly effective organisations as the Musicians' Benevolent Fund.

There was more awareness of these realities in the past. When I glance on occasion at journals like Gramophone and BBC's Classical Music Magazine nowadays, I see a lightweight, Samuel Smiles society where God's in His Heaven and All's Right with the World. And judging from the grief I'm told the editor of Opera gets for his excellent and plain-spoken political editorials (cancelled subscriptions are the least of it) many music lovers see the drug they crave as an escape from the real world, rather than an engagement with it. Which is only fine up to a point, in my opinion.

Loads of Gramophone pieces like this (for some years now)...:

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/gramophone-guest-blog/dont-knock-the-proms-events-such-as-this-keep-alive-the-idea-that-music

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/gramophone-guest-blog/why-are-our-schools-pushing-classical-music-to-the-margins

[Dave2002]

Even though I'm not a fan of popular music, I think the issue re producers vs consumers exists in that field too. I have worked with many young people who are presumably on the whole the people who listen to that genre of music. The number of times I was shown ways to avoid having to pay a performer, or rip off a recording ... considerable. People think that artists should be paid, but that's fine as long as they don't have to pay themselves. They often claim that they don't have any money, but they expect other people to pay for them.