R3 'Game' theory?

[doversoul1]

And the reward/outcome is different - personal satisfaction rather than monetary gain. I think it is the money side of things which causes the problem with gambling - the conviction that the big win is next or just around the corner so the individual has to keep going or risk missing out. At an everyday level it's what keeps people buying lottery tickets if they always use the same numbers, the fear of not doing it one week and then seeing those numbers coming up.
There is a risk of spending too much time gaming and losing track of reality, which might share some of the features of addiction and might be an issue for those whose personalities tend to that profile, but I'm not convinced there is a simple direct link as in 'start playing video games, end up sucked into gambling'.

The article posted by Judith concludes that the distinction between the two is becoming less clear but this is not the same thing as gaming can lead to gambling. The difference or the link between gambling and gaming is less important compared with the fact that addiction to gaming is spreading amongst children and young people in such an extent that ‘the World Health Organization last year recognised “gaming disorder” as a medical condition for the first time’. Surely this should not be brushed aside (not that you are doing that) simply because we thing gaming is not the same as gambling.


Master Jacques
An enlightening post as always. Maybe gaming should have an age restriction and young people and children should have their playing time systematically rationed. As for the music, I suppose you could say that game music can be a new breed of Tafelmusik?

[MrGongGong]

As an inveterate computer gamer myself (mainly RPG with some Strategy) I think it's about time R3 showed some interest in music for gaming - even R4's excuse for an "arts" programme, Front Row, now has regular reviews of new, blockbuster console and PC games. Needless to say they show no interest in "art" games, such as the masterly, Czech epic Kingdom Come Deliverance, only being interested in popular entertainment.

Most of the brightest young composers working today (at least in Europe and Asia, where game scores are usually sourced for reasons of finance) are involved in this line of composition, rather than less remunerative, more constraining - and usually highly derivative - work on Hollywood feature films. I myself have a select collection of CDs taken from computer game scores: Japanese RPGs in particular (composers such as the highly personal Yuki Kajiura) marry a delicious Vaughan Williams lyricism with minimalist "action" tracks, and are often memorable and enjoyable.

This is one way in which "art music" is transforming itself, beyond the sometimes stuffy parameters of the concert hall, cinema and opera house.

We used to play "Risk" as children and now I rampage around the world amassing armies and invading other countries... never did my any harm

[Serial_Apologist]

I started by listening to Donizetti and now i'm a crack addict living in squlour

STOP this EVIL NOW

Donny Osmond, surely???!!!

[Serial_Apologist]

Maybe gaming should have an age restriction and young people and children should have their playing time systematically rationed.

Possibly by parents or adults in charge having an input whereby the game in question automatically switched off after a given time?

[Serial_Apologist]

I wonder what made Radio 3 interested in music for gaming. It has never shown any interest in music for, say children’s TV programmes or TV advertisements.

Don't give them ideas!

[Judith Robbyns]

I'm still somewhat puzzled as to what 'video game music' is. I'm sure Tom Service said that classical music, e.g. Wagner, was used. Some of the music on Sound of Gaming sounded like lushly orchestrated film music (would it become film music if used to accompany a film? Or a TV theme if used in that way?). Other examples used synthesisers: fruit machine arcade music?

I'm still suspicious that this is a marketing spin-off from the lucrative video games industry. CDs are good merchandise to produce, like the Harry Potter Quiz Book or the Harry Potter Colouring Book with 36 Colouring Pencils. I can't see anyone in the music industry objecting to it. But I don't think that being composed/played to accompany a video game makes it a special musical genre to have its own radio programme.

That's not to say that none of it should ever be played in other contexts, even on Radio 3. But Sound of Gaming seems to be just one of a host of new(ish) programmes designed to get younger audiences listening to Radio 3, though whether it will extend their musical horizons I beg leave to doubt. None of these arguments are intended to detract from the perceived 'quality' that some of the music may have, just the way it's commodified.

[doversoul1]

We used to play "Risk" as children and now I rampage around the world amassing armies and invading other countries... never did my any harm

Who says?

[Master Jacques]

Master Jacques
An enlightening post as always. Maybe gaming should have an age restriction and young people and children should have their playing time systematically rationed. As for the music, I suppose you could say that game music can be a new breed of Tafelmusik?

A nice idea! But when you're actually playing these games, the music is crucial and intrinsic to the experience. Much of it has to be written in seamless loops, to allow for different play speeds. And then for example, you may be in the middle of a battle, with brass roaring and cymbals clashing; or a love scene with soft harps and lutes; or ghostly goings-on in crypts; or in a jolly urban market square; or wandering through the countryside just for the fun of it, to the sound of Lark Ascending-style warblings. And aside from all these distinct modes for different parts of the game, the composer must also provide viable transitions to work across the board, irrespective of which route the player chooses to take; plus more developed material (more like film music) for "cut scenes" which occur at various points in a game to interrupt the flow.

As you can see, this takes huge skill - the difference between a good and a great game (e.g. the Polish Witcher III: Wild Hunt, with a wonderful score by Marcin Przybyłowicz) can often lie in the composer's cunning.

[Master Jacques]

I'm still somewhat puzzled as to what 'video game music' is.

To add just a little envoi to my last post - of course video game music can be written in any style known to man, ancient (from the Greeks and Perotin upwards) or modern (pop).

In so far as (say) "swords and sorcery" RPGs owe plenty to Tolkien, which in turn acquired Wagnerian elements for the Lord of the Rings trilogy of films, Tom Service is right to point to Wagner. But as a generalisation that will not do: Carmina Burana is if anything more influential on the current line of RPG video game composers, as is minimalism. It's not one, simple thing - just as there are a huge variety of game types out there.

[doversoul1]

I'm still somewhat puzzled as to what 'video game music' is. I'm sure Tom Service said that classical music, e.g. Wagner, was used. Some of the music on Sound of Gaming sounded like lushly orchestrated film music (would it become film music if used to accompany a film? Or a TV theme if used in that way?). Other examples used synthesisers: fruit machine arcade music?

I'm still suspicious that this is a marketing spin-off from the lucrative video games industry. CDs are good merchandise to produce, like the Harry Potter Quiz Book or the Harry Potter Colouring Book with 36 Colouring Pencils. I can't see anyone in the music industry objecting to it. But I don't think that being composed/played to accompany a video game makes it a special musical genre to have its own radio programme.

That's not to say that none of it should ever be played in other contexts, even on Radio 3. But Sound of Gaming seems to be just one of a host of new(ish) programmes designed to get younger audiences listening to Radio 3, though whether it will extend their musical horizons I beg leave to doubt. None of these arguments are intended to detract from the perceived 'quality' that some of the music may have, just the way it's commodified.

You are polite, Judith. I’m listening to yesterday’s programme. I’d have believed it if someone had told me that this is a film music programme with a DJ chatting to a guest and talking about how he does things etc on Radio 2. The music so far (into 18 minutes) is all pretty unmemorable, easy listening.

‘Just such fun, brilliant music’, says the presenter. Some like it lukewarm, I suppose.

The programme is even more lukewarm (lukewarmer?) than I expected. What a waste of Radio 3’s time. I expect Mr GG will tell me that I caught the poorer bit and shouldn’t judge the whole thing by just a few minutes of listening but when four of five works that are supposed to be ‘fabulous’ all turned out to be not much more than bits of films soundtrack music, I don’t think I’ll miss much by ignoring this programme.

[Judith Robbyns]

Master Jacques - Two things that you say are of special interest, "But when you're actually playing these games, the music is crucial and intrinsic to the experience". That is more or less what Tom Service said. But the programme Sound of Gaming is divested of what is surely the central interest - the game, leaving the illustrations without the book.

"video game music can be written in any style known to man", in which case it is not a musical genre, simply music of many different styles which accompanies a video game, which in this case is itself notably absent.

This programme is presented by a game music composer, and the episode I listened to (the first one) had a guest who was also a game music composer. The presenter, in particular, was uncommonly enthusiastic about every piece she introduced. It was an exuberant enthusiasm in which I had no share. The music was neither unpleasant nor irritating but it did not excite or delight.

We may agree that all music is, in some sense 'art' but I would not agree that video game music is therefore 'art music'. By that argument so is hiphop, which is tremendously popular with younger audiences and should therefore have its own programme on Radio Three. As should heavy metal and - here I run out of suggestions - garage?

[Master Jacques]

Master Jacques - Two things that you say are of special interest, "But when you're actually playing these games, the music is crucial and intrinsic to the experience". That is more or less what Tom Service said. But the programme Sound of Gaming is divested of what is surely the central interest - the game, leaving the illustrations without the book.

I agree with you, Judith. Without an idea of the visual counterpoint, most game scores don't mean so much. The same is true of film music, of course, which gets an inordinate amount of attention. On the other hand, I suppose that at least as many people will be familiar these days with blockbuster games, as they are with blockbuster films. So the target audience can supply its own visuals, in the eye of the mind.

"video game music can be written in any style known to man", in which case it is not a musical genre, simply music of many different styles which accompanies a video game, which in this case is itself notably absent.

Genre can be defined by form as well as content: look at the huge variety of musical styles which have been accommodated by the German sonata-form based symphony. Game music must work with the seamless fluidity I've described, and it stands (usually) by itself, there being little dialogue to distract us from it, though "real world" noise will often be a part of the aural tapestry too. So I would say that is at least as fair to talk about game music as a genre, as it is fair to talk about film music.

This programme is presented by a game music composer, and the episode I listened to (the first one) had a guest who was also a game music composer. The presenter, in particular, was uncommonly enthusiastic about every piece she introduced. It was an exuberant enthusiasm in which I had no share. The music was neither unpleasant nor irritating but it did not excite or delight.

That's true of upwards of 95% of all music ever written! I agree that the gushing hype surrounding nearly all Radio 3 programmes these days does nobody any service - least of all the very clever composers of game music. The best of it is open to illuminating analysis, just as surely as a Brahms Hungarian Dance.

We may agree that all music is, in some sense 'art' but I would not agree that video game music is therefore 'art music'. By that argument so is hiphop, which is tremendously popular with younger audiences and should therefore have its own programme on Radio Three. As should heavy metal and - here I run out of suggestions - garage?

"Art music" has a nasty habit of moving the goalposts as time marches on, and I for one am glad to see that "art music" and "popular music" are once again seeking the rapprochement that has not existed since the 18th century. When it comes to duration - video game scores have contained upwards of 90 hours music on occasion, often in relatively extended movements - this form of music requires huge technical skill and imagination from its composers, which is good enough for me!

[oddoneout]

I wonder if an Innocent Ear approach would produce the same reactions?

[Judith Robbyns]

I did some research before listening to the programme (listening to YouTube clips), but it's hard to search out video game music and then listen to it as if you don't know it's video game music (if that is what's necessary for Innocent Ear).

I do wonder whether there is a correlation between the basic appeal of video games (as a pursuit/entertainment) and the appeal of the music itself. Trying to find out something about the games hasn't made me any more interested in becoming even an occasional gamer. It is one of many other pursuits which have no appeal for me but which have enormous appeal for billions around the world. So, the gaming music seems, as far as I can judge, eminently suitable for the games it accompanies. It seems like 'that kind of music' - which could be the very reason why it no more has a strong appeal as do the games. Some people have said they enjoyed the music on the programme although they are not gamers. I wonder, on a scale of 1-10, how much they enjoyed it.

To me it seems to be a new form of popular music - 'popular' because so many people love it. Isn't that what popular means? It isn't a synonym for worthless.

[Old Grumpy]

https://www.theguardian.com/games/20...-jessica-curry

I do hope this is an April Fool joke?
But




Suspect it isn't.

Don't worry. It will be over in four weeks...


... to be replaced, probably, by Sound of Dance

OG