Unheard British symphonies

[LMcD]

Is there any particular reason why symphonies by certain British composers never seem to be broadcast or programmed in concerts - those by, for example, William Alwyn, Malcolm Arnold, Daniel Jones or Robert Simpson? Are they thought not to deserve at least the odd outing, or are they considered to be forbiddingly inaccessible - or are they simply thought to be out of fashion?

[Pulcinella]

Were they ever in fashion to have gone out of it?
Maybe their time will come.
Naxos at least has made a brave stab by recording the Arnold and Alwyn cycles.

I wonder if the prospect of a recording is needed?
Who was the chicken and who the egg for the recent Hyperion BBCSSO Tippett cycle I wonder: orchestra manager and conductor, programming the works anyway, or the record company, offering to record them?

[Stanfordian]

Is there any particular reason why symphonies by certain British composers never seem to be broadcast or programmed in concerts - those by, for example, William Alwyn, Malcolm Arnold, Daniel Jones or Robert Simpson? Are they thought not to deserve at least the odd outing, or are they considered to be forbiddingly inaccessible - or are they simply thought to be out of fashion?

Two of those names you mention I relish, one I'm ambivalent about and one I don't especially rate. I suppose it's about personal taste.

I recall Sir Mark Elder a conductor who is in a high profile position to champion British music saying to me in interview that:

"Every few years someone says to me that I ought to listen to this piece by Malcolm Arnold either this symphony or this concerto whatever. I listen and it doesn’t mean anything to me. It just doesn’t get to me."

I was very disappointed that he definitely wouldn't be programming any Arnold.

[silvestrione]

Is there any particular reason why symphonies by certain British composers never seem to be broadcast or programmed in concerts - those by, for example, William Alwyn, Malcolm Arnold, Daniel Jones or Robert Simpson? Are they thought not to deserve at least the odd outing, or are they considered to be forbiddingly inaccessible - or are they simply thought to be out of fashion?

I'd add Edmund Rubbra to that...ahead of Simpson and Arnold, for me (afraid I don't know Alwyn and Jones).

[Serial_Apologist]

Based on having heard Nos 1, 2 and 4, I'd nominate the excellent symphonies of Peter Racine Fricker. Fricker, who was considered "on the way" to contemporary modernism in the 1950s, but possibly not quickly enough in comparison with near-contemporaries such as Elisabeth Lutyens and Humphrey Searle because he only selectively adpted 12-tone serialism, would probably be described atonal by today's norms and probably sound almost ultra-modern were his music to be included on the New Music Show, let alone the Proms. And he was painfully shy too - not a good media image for interviewing purposes in these times.

Thanks for starting this thread, LMcD - a nice companion to mine on neglected French composers.

[Pulcinella]

Don't forget this thread, too:

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?5670-What-British-commonwealth-or-similar-neglected-composer-are-you-listening-to

Lots of comments and suggestions there, I'm sure.

[Boilk]

Are there any good symphonies among the 114 offerings by the late Derek Bourgeois? I recall No.5 being broadcast in the early 1980s (and it's on YouTube) but IMHO it's nothing special. The Philip Jones Brass Enesemble recorded a nice movement (Hock) fron his Wine Symphony (No.4).

Former Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger interviewed the composer in 2009 when the count was at 'just' 44.

[Stanfordian]

Are there any good symphonies among the 114 offerings by the late Derek Bourgeois? I recall No.5 being broadcast in the early 1980s (and it's on YouTube) but IMHO it's nothing special. The Philip Jones Brass Enesemble recorded a nice movement (Hock) fron his Wine Symphony (No.4).

Former Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger interviewed the composer in 2009 when the count was at 'just' 44.

With a name like Bourgeois I can't imagine his music going down well in the old Soviet Union.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

With a name like Bourgeois I can't imagine his music going down well in the old Soviet Union.

Should be popular in oilfields, though.

This is a perennial topic on the Forum. There are some very good works amongst those mentioned so far (those by Alwyn were a real discovery for me - my thanks yet again to Edgey and Andrew Slater) and they do get occasional broadcasts (I can remember Alwyn, Arnold, Jones, Bax having had works broadcast on R3 over the past 5 years) and there is the annual Malcolm Arnold Festival.

It's just that most of them are simply not interesting enough for a sufficient number of conductors to want to learn them and then train orchestras to play them more regularly. There are far too many other works that they want to devote their energies to. (And that's just broadcast performances - add the large indifference of audiences to the mix, and you see why they aren't programmed in concerts more often.)

We'll have to make do with the Lyrita, Naxos, Dutton recordings and those "odd outings" on R3.

[vinteuil]

It's just that most of them are simply not interesting enough for a sufficient number of conductors to want to learn them and then train orchestras to play them more regularly. There are far too many other works that they want to devote their energies to. (And that's just broadcast performances - add the large indifference of audiences to the mix, and you see why they aren't programmed in concerts more often.)
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... yep. I have decided life is too short to spend time on British orchestral music.

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[Serial_Apologist]

With a name like Bourgeois I can't imagine his music going down well in the old Soviet Union.

Actually he would probbly have gone down very well in the Soviet Union, notwithstanding the name; at any rate with the authorities, his music being made to be "appealing to the masses".

[Serial_Apologist]

... yep. I have decided life is too short to spend time on British orchestral music.

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But doesn't charidee begin at home?

[ahinton]

With a name like Bourgeois I can't imagine his music going down well in the old Soviet Union.

...time not to air the old "cru bourgeois" gags that circulated at around the time that his Wine Symphony was premièred...

[vinteuil]

But doesn't charidee begin at home?

... if 'listening to British music' counts as charity - well....

I've never believed in the virtues of suffering.


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[verismissimo]

Then there are the earlier generations of neglected Brits - Sterndale Bennett, Cowen, Stanford, Parry …

With others, I make exceptions of Elgar, Britten and Tippett.