World or "ethnic" music

[Dave2002]

I hope the suggested title for this thread doesn't give offence - it wasn't my intention.

I recently came across some Chinese instruments - which seem effectively to be flutes, but they also have a membrane which can be adjusted - perhaps to alter the timbre, or to increase the effective volume level. They are call dizis - and Amazon has them for sale at modest prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DiziChinese-Transverse-Bamboo-Flutes/b?node=5701488031

Curiosity will probably eventually get the better of me, and I'll buy one (or more), though then I'll have to figure out how to play those.

I did see a didgeridoo in an auction recently, but I didn't follow that up.

Do others have any interest in unusual instruments, perhaps from other cultures, and the music which can be played on them?

[Joseph K]

I once played a sitar. It made me appreciate how sitarists must have callused fingers a level up from guitarists... the strings were tough on my fretting-hand fingers to say the least.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I once played a sitar. It made me appreciate how sitarists must have callused fingers a level up from guitarists... the strings were tough on my fretting-hand fingers to say the least.

Ah, but they begin at a very young age.

Starting with Baby Sitars.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I played in Gamelan ensembles in Durham and on the South Bank a couple of times - great experiences (we were all at a similar level of experience, and within a few hours were contributing to this huge ensemble experience. Tremendous stuff.

The woman I sit next to at concerts in Ilkley has a fine collection of Japanese and Indian Classical Music instruments. (And I don't mean Suzuki-type violins!)

[MrGongGong]

Yes... several

I studied Sitar for a few years as a student
played in Gamelan orchestras, dabbled on the Duduk, have a large collection of gongs from several places (including some home-made ones from Scunthorpe)
frequent collaborations with a Shakuhachi player, tabla players etc
some things with Tuvan musicians and so on

BUT I'm not sure that these are "unusual" ?
Though the Vienna Vegetable Orchestra probably falls into that definition

My own composition studies with Frank Denyer probably made me "recalibrate" many of the assumptions about musics

[Joseph K]

Come to think of it, I also played steel drums/pans in high school.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Come to think of it, I also played steel drums/pans in high school.

Oh yes - a couple of school workshop sessions here, too; and Ghanaian Drumming

[Dave2002]

Currently, if one has access to the Kindle Unlimited store (a recent offer on am.uk - 3 months free perhaps) - one can peruse this book - How to Play Dizi, the Chinese Bamboo Flute: The Advanced Skills by H H Lee - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Play-Dizi-C...gateway&sr=8-2

It seems that the most significant part of some Chinese bamboo flutes (dizi) which differ from our western flutes, is the dimo - the hole with the membrane which covers it, and may give an added and rather strange effect in some pieces. There are end blown flutes - called xiao - which superficially look similar to recorders because of the way they are held, but I think they are played like regular flutes, but the embouchure may be slightly different. The xiao flutes do not use the dimo, AFAIK.

The book by Lee mentioned here suggests many techniques for playing - really quite technically detailed and many of the techniques are appropriate for western classical players too. However, the notation is not standard western music notation. Is this really what Chinese musicians use for recording their songs, or for playing from? Very possibly - maybe it's easy enough to read it with practice - well, maybe!

[MrGongGong]

Currently, if one has access to the Kindle Unlimited store (a recent offer on am.uk - 3 months free perhaps) - one can peruse this book - How to Play Dizi, the Chinese Bamboo Flute: The Advanced Skills by H H Lee - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Play-Dizi-C...gateway&sr=8-2

It seems that the most significant part of some Chinese bamboo flutes (dizi) which differ from our western flutes, is the dimo - the hole with the membrane which covers it, and may give an added and rather strange effect in some pieces. There are end blown flutes - called xiao - which superficially look similar to recorders because of the way they are held, but I think they are played like regular flutes, but the embouchure may be slightly different. The xiao flutes do not use the dimo, AFAIK.

The book by Lee mentioned here suggests many techniques for playing - really quite technically detailed and many of the techniques are appropriate for western classical players too. However, the notation is not standard western music notation. Is this really what Chinese musicians use for recording their songs, or for playing from? Very possibly - maybe it's easy enough to read it with practice - well, maybe!

A quick look at the xiao shows that it is a notched vertical flute like the Shakuhachi, Quena or Ney (though the Ney doesn't really always have a notch)

I think you might find this book useful https://www.amazon.co.uk/Music-Whole.../dp/0306807491 (cheap copies secondhand)

and if you are in London anytime a trip to Ray Man's shop (now in Chalk Farm by the Roundhouse) would be illuminating... better still Karl Heng in Singapore

[Dave2002]

A quick look at the xiao shows that it is a notched vertical flute like the Shakuhachi, Quena or Ney (though the Ney doesn't really always have a notch)

I think you might find this book useful https://www.amazon.co.uk/Music-Whole.../dp/0306807491 (cheap copies secondhand)

and if you are in London anytime a trip to Ray Man's shop (now in Chalk Farm by the Roundhouse) would be illuminating... better still Karl Heng in Singapore

I didn't know much about notched flutes before today. Some may have V shaped notches, but the xiao may have more semi-circular shaped ones - beginning to be similar to modern western flutes. I think there are different styles. See the other book by H H Lee - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Play-Dizi-C...gateway&sr=8-1 which has photos. This one seems to deal more with the xiao style instruments than the dizis.

There are images of the mouths of the nanxiao and beixiao instruments about 18% of the way in to the Kindle edition.

Thanks for the book suggestion. I've added it to my order list.

I'm probably not very likely to get to Singapore, but I could take a detour to Chalk Farm.

[Globaltruth]

I hope the suggested title for this thread doesn't give offence - it wasn't my intention.

I recently came across some Chinese instruments - which seem effectively to be flutes, but they also have a membrane which can be adjusted - perhaps to alter the timbre, or to increase the effective volume level. They are call dizis - and Amazon has them for sale at modest prices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DiziChinese-Transverse-Bamboo-Flutes/b?node=5701488031

Curiosity will probably eventually get the better of me, and I'll buy one (or more), though then I'll have to figure out how to play those.

I did see a didgeridoo in an auction recently, but I didn't follow that up.

Do others have any interest in unusual instruments, perhaps from other cultures, and the music which can be played on them?

Why yes, we do have a small sub forum on this topic known, controversially, as WORLD MUSIC... this has always been primarily about the music but would welcome discussions on the individual instruments too.
Don't want it to get too busy though.

[doversoul1]

Currently, if one has access to the Kindle Unlimited store (a recent offer on am.uk - 3 months free perhaps) - one can peruse this book - How to Play Dizi, the Chinese Bamboo Flute: The Advanced Skills by H H Lee - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Play-Dizi-C...gateway&sr=8-2

It seems that the most significant part of some Chinese bamboo flutes (dizi) which differ from our western flutes, is the dimo - the hole with the membrane which covers it, and may give an added and rather strange effect in some pieces. There are end blown flutes - called xiao - which superficially look similar to recorders because of the way they are held, but I think they are played like regular flutes, but the embouchure may be slightly different. The xiao flutes do not use the dimo, AFAIK.

The book by Lee mentioned here suggests many techniques for playing - really quite technically detailed and many of the techniques are appropriate for western classical players too. However, the notation is not standard western music notation. Is this really what Chinese musicians use for recording their songs, or for playing from? Very possibly - maybe it's easy enough to read it with practice - well, maybe!

There is a similar bamboo flute* in Japan which is thought to have come from China and became a musical instrument for popular rather than high culture. Traditionally, as far as I am aware, learning music was closer to oral culture than to literacy in that learning was by listening, copying, and memorising. Notations in traditional music, at least in Japan, is a modern concept that has been developed to meet the wider interest in the instrument.
* shinobue: the English wiki article does not tell you anything very interesting.
You could try this: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/篠笛

[LeMartinPecheur]

I recently came across some Chinese instruments - which seem effectively to be flutes, but they also have a membrane which can be adjusted - perhaps to alter the timbre, or to increase the effective volume level. They are call dizis - and Amazon has them for sale at modest prices.

Wasn't someone called Gillespie the greatest virtuoso on this instrument?

[Dave2002]

Here is more on the Chinese flutes - http://www.oldflutes.com/world/chinese.htm

[LeMartinPecheur]

Here is more on the Chinese flutes - http://www.oldflutes.com/world/chinese.htm

Does it mention that at least one Chinese emperor couldn't bear the noise they made?

His lawyers had to invent the so-called 'Squeak and Dizis' order.

(Coat already on, despite the heat...)