Radio 3 sheds fuddy-duddy image

[Ein Heldenleben]

If performances of the quality of last night’s Prom were guaranteed I would be very happy with the odd all Brahms concert....
Jayne is right : there is a disconnect between the general ‘R3 is getting it wrong’ tone of some of the threads and the absolutely wonderful music-making we have had in this first Proms week . For those working at home the afternoon repeats have been doubly welcome. Not to mention some excellent interval discussions.....

[LMcD]

It was about Gardner - but was in fact a self-serving interview with KD, who else ....in particular it was about Gardner's suggestion that orchestras avoid what he terms "missionary position" programming, by which apparently he means safe programming of the all-Brahms variety.

NH-T is indeed excellent, one of the best of the bunch, R3 as it used to be...we don't hear nearly enough of her. She's mainly Wales-based, obviously, I remember her presenting a broadcast-live lunchtime concert from St David's Hall that I was at.

Jayne that's two threads you've dragged current politics into kicking and screaming - however lamentable, they just don't belong in a thread about R3's audience research, or lack of it

I agree. May I also put a word in for John Toal, sometimes heard introducing concerts and recitals from Northern Ireland?

[cloughie]

It was about

NH-T is indeed excellent, one of the best of the bunch, R3 as it used to be...we don't hear nearly enough of her. She's mainly Wales-based, obviously, I remember her presenting a broadcast-live lunchtime concert from St David's Hall that I was at.

:

...and what a lovely voice to listen to whatever she said.

[oddoneout]

If performances of the quality of last night’s Prom were guaranteed I would be very happy with the odd all Brahms concert....
Jayne is right : there is a disconnect between the general ‘R3 is getting it wrong’ tone of some of the threads and the absolutely wonderful music-making we have had in this first Proms week . For those working at home the afternoon repeats have been doubly welcome. Not to mention some excellent interval discussions.....

The Proms are part of a day's output for part of the year. There are of course many excellent concerts broadcast during the rest of the year, afternoon as well as evening. However that often highlights the poor quality of, for instance the morning schedule, and the lack of quality non-concert music related material of the kind that many of us remember from years past. I don't think there is a disconnect involved.Even if I don't listen to that many of the Proms I appreciate the fact that they are broadcast and available to all and the achievement that represents; doesn't stop me remarking on other areas of the output which I feel are not up to scratch, or directions of travel I feel are ill-advised/counter-productive.

[Bella Kemp]

Could anything be worse than the mess of tonight's (Friday - 1969, the sound of a summer) concert? It is desperately unpleasant. Surely the point of Radio 6 is to broadcast music like this. And, frankly, there are a huge number of other radio stations that give us this sort of stuff. Yes, there was some good poetry in the interval and odd fragments of the music that Radio 3 is given funding to provide, but overall the evening was horrible. Perhaps there's a metaphor for BREXIT - we had something that was good and yet perversely decided to chuck it all away.

[edashtav]

Could anything be worse than the mess of tonight's (Friday - 1969, the sound of a summer) concert? It is desperately unpleasant. Surely the point of Radio 6 is to broadcast music like this. And, frankly, there are a huge number of other radio stations that give us this sort of stuff. Yes, there was some good poetry in the interval and odd fragments of the music that Radio 3 is given funding to provide, but overall the evening was horrible. Perhaps there's a metaphor for BREXIT - we had something that was good and yet perversely decided to chuck it all away.

H.M.P. : Historically misinformed performances. Execrable.

[jayne lee wilson]

To Bella Kemp and oddoneout - look at the sequence of Proms from say, 13-22.... a vary varied & rich cross-section of orchestral and choral music across three centuries...with interval features to match....can you really find nothing of interest in there? if you can't, then is Radio 3 the station you really want? I'm genuinely puzzled.... or is it just about the morning programs?

I was actually grateful to have two "nights off" - Proms 11 & 12, programs which didn't interest me much, as there is only so much music a person can take in (not to mention try to write about..) and one likes doing other things e.g. Any Questions, or an evening walk, precious now the days are shortening. Not to mention encoring the New Music, the Proms Premieres...(or even playing a CD...)...

But the only problem next week is fitting all those concerts in! I don't usually hear the interval talks live, I need fresh air, coffee, time to feed cats etc., so I seek them out later..... and so on. You plan your listening off Sounds etc.

I just feel it'll always be a problem if you complain about the things you dislike, whilst admitting that you don't listen to many of the concerts anyway (Proms or through the year). What is a radio station to do about that? If you homed in on the essence of Radio 3 it would surely be: live or recorded concerts. That's the USP over stations which broadcast mainly from commercial recordings - much of that is still intact on Radio 3. It has certainly not "all been chucked away", but it is under pressure from various streaming services around the world, from various orchestras, opera houses etc (so much choice...)....and it is publicly-funded, an ever bigger challenge to survive. Yet it still offers the highest sound quality webcasts anywhere in Europe (AAC 320 kbps).

As I said before, you need to offer some idea of what you want, not just home in on those things you hate... but if you don't even listen to the concerts much anyway... why should Radio 3 listen to you?
I'm not trying to be unpleasant, but you see the problem, surely...

[antongould]

To Bella Kemp and oddoneout - look at the sequence of Proms from say, 13-22.... a vary varied & rich cross-section of orchestral and choral music across three centuries...with interval features to match....can you really find nothing of interest in there? if you can't, then is Radio 3 the station you really want? I'm genuinely puzzled.... or is it just about the morning programs?

I was actually grateful to have two "nights off" - Proms 11 & 12, programs which didn't interest me much, as there is only so much music a person can take in (not to mention try to write about..) and one likes doing other things e.g. Any Questions, or an evening walk, precious now the days are shortening. Not to mention encoring the New Music, the Proms Premieres...(or even playing a CD...)...

But the only problem next week is fitting all those concerts in! I don't usually hear the interval talks live, I need fresh air, coffee, time to feed cats etc., so I seek them out later..... and so on. You plan your listening off Sounds etc.

I just feel it'll always be a problem if you complain about the things you dislike, whilst admitting that you don't listen to many of the concerts anyway (Proms or through the year). What is a radio station to do about that? If you homed in on the essence of Radio 3 it would surely be: live or recorded concerts. That's the USP over stations which broadcast mainly from commercial recordings - much of that is still intact on Radio 3. It has certainly not "all been chucked away", but it is under pressure from various streaming services around the world, from various orchestras, opera houses etc (so much choice...)....and it is publicly-funded, an ever bigger challenge to survive. Yet it still offers the highest sound quality webcasts anywhere in Europe (AAC 320 kbps).

As I said before, you need to offer some idea of what you want, not just home in on those things you hate... but if you don't even listen to the concerts much anyway... why should Radio 3 listen to you?
I'm not trying to be unpleasant, but you see the problem, surely...

Well said Jayne IMVVHO ......

[LMcD]

Could anything be worse than the mess of tonight's (Friday - 1969, the sound of a summer) concert? It is desperately unpleasant. Surely the point of Radio 6 is to broadcast music like this. And, frankly, there are a huge number of other radio stations that give us this sort of stuff. Yes, there was some good poetry in the interval and odd fragments of the music that Radio 3 is given funding to provide, but overall the evening was horrible. Perhaps there's a metaphor for BREXIT - we had something that was good and yet perversely decided to chuck it all away.

Forumistas posting on the associated 'Proms' thread seem to be of a single mind ….

[oddoneout]

Jayne, I agree with what you say but it isn't actually a true reflection of my situation with respect to R3. I didn't say anything about lack of interest in the Proms concerts, simply that I don't listen to that many; I wasn't being negative about the Proms. I do listen to a lot of the daytime scheduling throughout the year(including the odd Proms repeat!) and also I hope that overall any comments I post on the forum about the R3 output have a reasonable balance of positive to negative overall - especially since many of the negative comments relate to one or two perennial problem areas, for which I have also often suggested what I think R3 could do to improve those areas. Something which I am trying to do more often is contacting R3 directly about its output - I don't do social media and have not always found it straightforward to direct feedback in the past.

[cloughie]

Forumistas posting on the associated 'Proms' thread seem to be of a single mind ….

Wasn't 1969 the year that pop music died?

[doversoul1]

To Bella Kemp and oddoneout - look at the sequence of Proms from say, 13-22.... a vary varied & rich cross-section of orchestral and choral music across three centuries...with interval features to match....can you really find nothing of interest in there? if you can't, then is Radio 3 the station you really want? I'm genuinely puzzled.... or is it just about the morning programs?

I was actually grateful to have two "nights off" - Proms 11 & 12, programs which didn't interest me much, as there is only so much music a person can take in (not to mention try to write about..) and one likes doing other things e.g. Any Questions, or an evening walk, precious now the days are shortening. Not to mention encoring the New Music, the Proms Premieres...(or even playing a CD...)...

But the only problem next week is fitting all those concerts in! I don't usually hear the interval talks live, I need fresh air, coffee, time to feed cats etc., so I seek them out later..... and so on. You plan your listening off Sounds etc.

I just feel it'll always be a problem if you complain about the things you dislike, whilst admitting that you don't listen to many of the concerts anyway (Proms or through the year). What is a radio station to do about that? If you homed in on the essence of Radio 3 it would surely be: live or recorded concerts. That's the USP over stations which broadcast mainly from commercial recordings - much of that is still intact on Radio 3. It has certainly not "all been chucked away", but it is under pressure from various streaming services around the world, from various orchestras, opera houses etc (so much choice...)....and it is publicly-funded, an ever bigger challenge to survive. Yet it still offers the highest sound quality webcasts anywhere in Europe (AAC 320 kbps).

As I said before, you need to offer some idea of what you want, not just home in on those things you hate... but if you don't even listen to the concerts much anyway... why should Radio 3 listen to you?
I'm not trying to be unpleasant, but you see the problem, surely...

The proms are just an annual summer nights fever. In the rest of 40 odd weeks, how often do you listen to Radio 3 in Concert, Lunchtime Concert or any other R3 programmes*? I have an impression that most of your posts, apart from those about the proms, are about commercial recordings on which you clearly devote considerable amount of time listening ‘critically’ and checking the reference. The Proms may be good but they can’t prop up Radio 3 as a radio station which is what this thread is about.
*Don’t bother to list the programmes you do or have listened. That isn’t the point.

the essence of Radio 3 it would surely be: live or recorded concerts. That's the USP over stations which broadcast mainly from commercial recordings

What differentiates Radio 3 from other music services like streaming etc. is that the music is presented. It is the quality of how the music is presented on Radio 3 (not just the presenters but the programming too) is what many of us here are questioning.

you need to offer some idea of what you want,

Do you mean you have not seen them (the ideas) on the forum?

By the way, would anyone care to try curating the Proms for culturally engaged” 35 to 54-year-olds who are creative, extrovert with passionate minds?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I largely work from home and listen to R3 on and off all day from 08.45 to 22.00. I don’t like the bleeding chunks element of Essential Classics or the tooth-grinding inducing political correctness of the Time Traveller slot . Nor do I see the point of the classical pairing at 09.30 and 10.30 . However the lunchtime and afternoon concerts ( and the afternoon fare generally) are usually excellent. I guess you just have to take the rough with the smooth (classics?)

[cloughie]

By the way, would anyone care to try curating the Proms for culturally engaged” 35 to 54-year-olds who are creative, extrovert with passionate minds?

Many of the BBC's problems are that they are designed, produced and presented by 35 - 54 year olds for 35 -54 year olds!

[teamsaint]

Many of the BBC's problems are that they are designed, produced and presented by 35 - 54 year olds for 35 -54 year olds!

That’s in part because many of the BBC 60 somethings retired on fat pensions a long time ago, leaving a workforce of the age range you say.

Have a walk round the city of London sometime to see the same dynamic applying.