The Times mentions a recent theory which suggests a link between the bass of Elgar's Enigma and the opening of Pergolesi's Stabat Mater. Any thoughts? (I remain a sceptic.)
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I suspect that the gentleman concerned has failed to find Glenn Miller's resting-place in the English Channel or Mallory's or Irvine's wallet at the summit of Everest and hasn't anything better to do with his time. This sort of thing serves no purpose whatever as far as I can see and is certainly not going to change my opinion or enjoyment of the work.
(There are quite a few odd stories in today's 'Times', probably because they've run out of things to write about Brexit - perhaps the Silly Season has started early). -
Yes indeed. My suspicion is that because the press were all geared up for Brexit to happen at the end of March, they've over-hoarded, and now don't know what to do with what they've hemmed themselves ibn with.Originally posted by LMcD View PostComment
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Elgar began writing the Enigma on the evening of October 21st 1898, after he'd been teaching at The Mount (something he disliked). He was 'down' after the premiere of Caractacus - that same morning he'd written to Jaeger the music was "off".
While relaxing in the evening he tinkered at the piano, but was interrupted by his wife's asking "What was that?", which caused him to retrace his steps - "Yes that - what is it?" "I don't know - but something might be made of it..." There followed a sort of game in which Elgar mimicked idiosyncrasies of friends.
Elgar told this story many times over the years (including before the first performance) and, although there are differences between accounts, the essentials are consistent - particularly about Alice's drawing his attention to the theme. If this is true, then the theme cannot be 'worked out' in any sense that might underlie a puzzle.
Then there's the fact that Elgar did not even mention there being an 'Enigma' until March 1899, when Jaeger added the word to the score (but only over the first six bars) and Elgar submitted a draft programme note, which talked about a counterpoint to a well-known tune, and a "dark" idea that "goes". Before that the only puzzle had been the identities of the Variations.
Elgar loved 'japes' and I'm sure had the greatest fun laying false scents, but if the account of its genesis is true then there could never have been a worked-out puzzle. At best, Elgar might have unconsciously improvised around one of the violin tunes from The Mount - something that stuck in his head.
In reality, the Enigma Variations is a very Schumannesque piece - think of Carneval and the Etudes Symphonies - complete with their own puzzles, intermezzos, sphynxes, and caricatures.Last edited by Pabmusic; 28-04-19, 00:56.Comment
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There’s an American gentleman who posts regularly on the Elgar Society’s Facebook page, endlessly pushing his own Enigma theory as though it’s indisputable fact. Then along comes another who is equally convinced of being 100% correct, with an entirely different solution.Comment
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What a load of tosh that Times man is talking about!Don’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
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Maybe, BBMmk2, or maybe not.Originally posted by BBMmk2 View Post
I suppose there have been at least a dozen reasonable stabs at a solution to the Enigma riddle from PI through Mozart's Prague Symphony, Beethoven's Pathétique Sonata, a Victorian Hymn Tune, to the Nursery Rhyme "Four and Twenty Black Birds baked in a Pie". All have their staunch proponents, some so convinced of their rightness that they have written articles, or books on the subject.
It is difficult either to rule these solutions out, as each fits some of the known facts but without a new 'killer' revelation of primary evidence straight from Elgar or his contemporaries, we cannot say ' Job Done' : this solution is the true and only answer.
Hence the attraction the continuing attraction for sleuths who do not want to be admiring Watsons but the one and only Sherlock Holmes.Comment
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The Times puts the word "solves" in quotes, and presents it as another theory. The proposal is said to have been put forward by composer Ed Newton-Rex who I gather is interested in using Artificial Intelligence in the composition process.Comment
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The theory is interesting and seems to have some merit rather like some of the others that have been put forward. Maybe one day an old hidden letter in Elgar's handwriting containing the answer to his puzzle will fall out from between the pages of a book.Originally posted by Lento View PostComment
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I fear than EE was too careful in that regard, Stan. Folk expected him to 'cough' when he summoned Ernest Newman to his deathbed... but nothing re Enigma emerged.Originally posted by Stanfordian View PostComment
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Frankly, I'm not at all convinced by this Pergolesi argument. Actually, I think that I might have an answer to the vexed question, although I won't claim that it's correct. I attended the world première of the middle movement of Carter's marvellous Sinfonia at a Prom in 1995; it elicited a surprisingly muted reception, as also did the work that followed it, Elgar's Falstaff (so quite a big first half - and hardly an obvious pairing of works). At the time, I was working on my Variations for piano and orchestra, whose theme comprises a 12-note row (albeit never treated serially) followed by a modal passage outlining the musical letters of Carter's first and last names; only as I approached the closing pags of its score did the significance of the C-A-R(e)-T(e)-E notes as a transposition (up a tone) of the first five notes of Elgar's "Enigma" theme finally dawn on me, although modesty, propriety and discretion sensibly discouraged me from re-entitling the piece "Enigma Variations". So the "Enigma" theme would appear to have been characterised by prescience on its composer's part rather than by a memory of a past work by Pergolesi.Comment
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I nail my colours to the mast as a firm convert to the Auld Lang Syne camp.
Last edited by Eine Alpensinfonie; 28-04-19, 19:22.Comment
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My own view, implied but not clearly stated in post 4, is that, if we are to believe Elgar's oft-repeated tale of the origin of the Variations, then there simply is no room at all for any clever counterpoint. Elgar would not have written the work without Alice's unexpected interruption, asking what "that" was, and causing Elgar to retrace his steps.Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
Elgar told this tale all his life, including while he was writing the work (Oct.-Jan.). On the other hand, there is no mention of an 'Enigma' or counterpoint puzzle before March, when Jaeger writes 'Enigma' over the first six bars, and Elgar talks about counterpoint in a letter to the programme-writer.
Even if there is some sort of substance to the counterpoint idea, it surely apples only to the first six bars and not to the G major middle section. Hence the otherwise unnecessary double bar. Novellos didn't help because they printed the word Enigma as if it applies to the whole of the Theme, whereas Jaeger's placing was over just the first six bars.Last edited by Pabmusic; 29-04-19, 00:03.Comment
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"No. Auld Lang Syne won’t do." - Edward Elgar
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