"Universalism" and "Imperialism" - how does Music "spread"?

[MrGongGong]

Can you think of any equivalent from non-Western music? If you are happy, clap you hands is originally a Japanese pop song but is composed in the western scale.

Isn't this "universal" ?



Or this ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK51LblcEOw&frags=pl%2Cwn

[doversoul1]

Isn't this "universal" ?



Or this ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK51...&frags=pl%2Cwn

I very much doubt that the majority of world population will recognise this work/performance as music in the first place. In that sense, yes, it is universal.

For the second, compare and contrast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04afjrahdoA

The Sakura usuelly performed now is a set of variations composed in 1923 by Michio Miyagi. Yes, the tune is well known but isn’t it know as something, a label, of Japan rather than a piece of music?

[MrGongGong]

I very much doubt that the majority of world population will recognise this work/performance as music in the first place. In that sense, yes, it is universal.

I'm not sure whether it is important whether a "majority" recognise it as "music" or not.

For the second, compare and contrast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04afjrahdoA

The Sakura usuelly performed now is a set variations composed in 1923 by Michio Miyagi. Yes, the tune is well known but isn’t it know as something, a label of Japan rather than a piece of music?

Interesting, I hear it as a piece of music rather than a "soundmark" of Japan.


I've just returned from North East Scotland where we did a performance of South Indian lullabies in a fairly remote location with a mix of field recordings of the sea and collected voices from local communities. Interesting that when we went into a Primary school to collect material and do a small performance the Indian Shrutibox I was using to generate the drone was immediately recognised as "like the drones on the pipes". So a group of 8-year-olds lay on the floor listening to Carnatic singing with a bit of live electronics and recordings of the weather with no "boredom" or "problem" at all.

[doversoul1]

I'm not sure whether it is important whether a "majority" recognise it as "music" or not.

If something is not recognised as music, how can it be an example for music being universal?

Interesting, I hear it as a piece of music rather than a "soundmark" of Japan

You would. You admit on another thread that you (and many of us here) are odd ones when it comes to music.

As for the children, they obviously thought it was much more fun than maths or English (more biggrin)

A serious question: do the children perceive it as music? I don’t mean what they are meant to perceive.

[ed] you've answered my question.

[MrGongGong]

If something is not recognised as music, how can it be an example for music being universal?

Even though many folks wouldn't give it the name "music" it still is music.
And it probably is "universal"
I'm much more relaxed these days about naming, I used to be very excercised about it but "sound art" works as well

You would. You admit on another thread that you (and many of us here) are odd ones when it comes to music.

Absolutely

(I think I said something similar on the Education thread)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... the tune is well known but isn’t it know as something, a label, of Japan rather than a piece of music?

At the risk of moving off-topic (or away from the core) that was more-or-less my thought when you mentioned "If you're happy and you know it" and somebody else suggested "Happy Birthday to You". Their function is what has made them so renowned - neither tunes are "popular" as pieces of Music in the sense that nobody would tune into a broadcast of a concert if they knew either were going to be performed (other than in elaborate arrangements such as Stravinsky's Greetings Prelude ) - nobody would buy a recording of either, nit i=even in a charity shop sale. The tunes have different attractions than their Musical content.