Beethoven's 8th Symphony: Your Opinions

[Tony Halstead]

Same here. The thread prompted a trawl through the versions offered by TS in his informative Beethoven-guide:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/feb/11/symphony-guide-beethoven-eighth

ORR/Gardiner -- Robust & emphatic in usual JEG style, although the woodwind are unsmiling & dully Hippy-ish. Crisp & convincing tempi for the first 3 movements, but the finale hysterically over-driven to the point of giving the strings no chance of articulating with the requisite intensity -- "viel schlamperei" as OK might have said. If Gardiner set out to prove that Beethoven was a madman, he's certainly succeeded in this scrambled finale.

Staatskapelle Dresden/Davis -- Beautifully played, but stodgy after JEG.

VPO/Thielemann -- Again lovely playing, but again tempi a tad slow, & the VPO can't help themselves from occasionally slipping into stylistically inapt Schubertian charm.

Where next ?

Where next? I suggest Szell / Cleveland for a superb 'modern instrument' version, or Hogwood / AAM for a period-instrument performance that defies the usual, received opinion that HIPP/ authenticity means 'weedy, scratchy and under-powered'.

[Maclintick]

Where next? I suggest Szell / Cleveland for a superb 'modern instrument' version, or Hogwood / AAM for a period-instrument performance that defies the usual, received opinion that HIPP/ authenticity means 'weedy, scratchy and under-powered'.

Thanks Tony. I'll give these a spin.

[jayne lee wilson]

Since we're getting onto recommendations, a few favourites....

RPO/Scherchen (1954 Mono, startlingly fast, precise yet expressive too - lovely trio; gets everything just right really.... VG sound for the date - Pristine or Tahra best.
Zurich Tonhalle/Zinman. State-of-the-Art sound, bracingly rhythmical, warm full-bodied performance, great "modern choice", lacks for nothing.
O18thC/Bruggen... the earlier of his tapings, lovely spacious recording, great for those period-instrument textures, plenty of rhythmic energy but never rushed, in the classic Bruggen way...

But Scherchen is the one I tend to seek out...

[Richard Barrett]

I would recommend that people interested in HIPP recordings could do a lot worse than listen to Antonini. I don't have a clear memory of JEG or Brüggen, and I don't think I've listened to Immerseel or Hogwood.

[jayne lee wilson]

I would recommend that people interested in HIPP recordings could do a lot worse than listen to Antonini. I don't have a clear memory of JEG or Brüggen, and I don't think I've listened to Immerseel or Hogwood.

The later ORR/JEG 8th is the finer I think - on SDG c/w a really lovely 2nd, live taping in Cadogan Hall 30/11/13. Warmer, nicer string tone, more flexible & expressive than the Archiv one.

[vinteuil]

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... Krivine for me :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Complete-Symphonies-Ludwig-van/dp/B004H6P2QA

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[Bryn]

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... Krivine for me :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Complete-Symphonies-Ludwig-van/dp/B004H6P2QA

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I thought it had been re-pressed (rather than repressed). Good that the later performances are still there on youtube.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... Krivine for me :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-C.../dp/B004H6P2QA

[Bryn]

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... Krivine for me :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Complete-Symphonies-Ludwig-van/dp/B004H6P2QA

.

Though the CD version is now out of print and very expensive to buy in used condition, QOBUS has the lossless downloads, replete with booklet, at a bargain price:

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/beethoven-symphonies-ludwig-van-beethoven/0822189017934

[Maclintick]

I would recommend that people interested in HIPP recordings could do a lot worse than listen to Antonini. I don't have a clear memory of JEG or Brüggen, and I don't think I've listened to Immerseel or Hogwood.

Just listened to Tony's recommendations followed by Basel KO/Antonini (a luftpause now required after listening to 6 versions in the last 24 hours or so -- will resume with JLW's faves in the fullness etc..)

Cleveland/Szell -- Now 50 or 60 years old & barely betrays its age in terms of recording, or indeed in any way at all. Well-chosen tempi allied to enjoyably forthright & untricksy interpretation -- flawless technique -- a straight bat reminiscent of Sunil Gavaskar in his prime (apologies to RF for cricketing metaphor). Such precision, such unanimity, but ultimately a tad lapidary for my taste.

AAM/Hogwood -- Disappointingly bereft of character IMHO. Alternately frantic & flatly uninteresting, esp. in the woodwind.

Basel KO/Antonini -- I put this on and the sun came out. Judicious choice of tempi with plenty of Sturm und Drang where it's called for, but with an affectionate warmth in sudden moments of relaxation that's beguiling after the hysterical HIPPies -- (I suppose this counts as semi-HIPP, being on modern instruments at modern pitch, but with sparing vibrato in the strings ?). Characterful woodwinds and an attractive rusticity in the 2nd movt. Thanks for the heads-up, RB

[Bryn]

. . . - (I suppose this counts as semi-HIPP, being on modern instruments at modern pitch, but with sparing vibrato in the strings ?) . . .

Really? I do not know this particular recording, as yet, but I thought that band and conductor usually switched from modern to historically appropriate instruments and tuning when playing Beethoven these days.

[Maclintick]

Really? I do not know this particular recording, as yet, but I thought that band and conductor usually switched from modern to historically appropriate instruments and tuning when playing Beethoven these days.

I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound that way to me in this recording -- here's from WIKI, so customary wariness required "In 2004, Kammerorchester Basel played Handel's opera Lotario both in Basel and at the Handel Festival Halle.^[2] They recorded all of Beethoven's symphonies, led by conductor Giovanni Antonini. A review of Symphony No. 5 noted the "period practice lightness, despite the use of modern instrument"

[Bryn]

I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound that way to me in this recording -- here's from WIKI, so customary wariness required "In 2004, Kammerorchester Basel played Handel's opera Lotario both in Basel and at the Handel Festival Halle.^[2] They recorded all of Beethoven's symphonies, led by conductor Giovanni Antonini. A review of Symphony No. 5 noted the "period practice lightness, despite the use of modern instrument"

From the Kammerorchester-Basel website:

"The innovative, artistically independent ensemble is always searching for new and far-reaching ways of interpretation through constant development of its harmonious sound on both historical and modern instruments. This diversity and depth has become its international trademark."

[Maclintick]

From the Kammerorchester-Basel website:

"The innovative, artistically independent ensemble is always searching for new and far-reaching ways of interpretation through constant development of its harmonious sound on both historical and modern instruments. This diversity and depth has become its international trademark."

If they play at modern pitch in this recording -- which they demonstrably do -- I suppose it's feasible they're playing on HIPP instruments, but not likely ? Whatever they're doing in this piece, it works !

[Darkbloom]

Just listened to Tony's recommendations followed by Basel KO/Antonini (a luftpause now required after listening to 6 versions in the last 24 hours or so -- will resume with JLW's faves in the fullness etc..)

Cleveland/Szell -- Now 50 or 60 years old & barely betrays its age in terms of recording, or indeed in any way at all. Well-chosen tempi allied to enjoyably forthright & untricksy interpretation -- flawless technique -- a straight bat reminiscent of Sunil Gavaskar in his prime (apologies to RF for cricketing metaphor). Such precision, such unanimity, but ultimately a tad lapidary for my taste.

AAM/Hogwood -- Disappointingly bereft of character IMHO. Alternately frantic & flatly uninteresting, esp. in the woodwind.

Basel KO/Antonini -- I put this on and the sun came out. Judicious choice of tempi with plenty of Sturm und Drang where it's called for, but with an affectionate warmth in sudden moments of relaxation that's beguiling after the hysterical HIPPies -- (I suppose this counts as semi-HIPP, being on modern instruments at modern pitch, but with sparing vibrato in the strings ?). Characterful woodwinds and an attractive rusticity in the 2nd movt. Thanks for the heads-up, RB

Likening conductors to batsmen is a very dangerous path to go down. Klemperer was obviously the Geoff Boycott of conductors. Carlos Kleiber maybe Kevin Pietersen. Daniel Barenboim was Graeme Hick - you expect him to be good but he always seems to disappoint.

OK, I'll stop now.