Beethoven's 8th Symphony: Your Opinions

[Maclintick]

Likening conductors to batsmen is a very dangerous path to go down.

They're both waving bits of wood -- what's the difference ?

[cloughie]

Likening conductors to batsmen is a very dangerous path to go down. Klemperer was obviously the Geoff Boycott of conductors. Carlos Kleiber maybe Kevin Pietersen. Daniel Barenboim was Graeme Hick - you expect him to be good but he always seems to disappoint.

OK, I'll stop now.

Perhaps we need Jonny Bairstow for Brexit, will continue as a batsman, when not always needed as a backstop!

[ardcarp]

I've dipped in and out of this thread, though probably haven't read everything. Of course Conchie is perfectly entitled not to like the 8th. I wonder what he'd have thought of it it had it been B's first ever symphony, i.e. with only Haydn/Mozart to compare it with? It's an old saw (sore?) that Beethoven had to relax from being revolutionnaire on the even numbers (though that doesn't quite explain No 6) and as someone suggested way upthread, orchestral players love to play them...and they are mostly scored for chamber-sized orchestras (even if timps are sometimes tuned outside the soh-doh spectrum) which suits the smaller outfits. As for 'even the lumpen Edward Heath could conduct it', well that assumes that 'waving bits of wood' is what it's all about.

[Bryn]

. . . they are mostly scored for chamber-sized orchestras . . .

Eh? 1, 2, 3, 4 and 8 were scored for a similarly sized orchestra (bear in mind the size of the venues Beethoven had available to him). 5, 6, 7 and 9 are scored for larger non-string complements but even then, the capacity of the halls available at the time of composition and first performances restricted the orchestral complement to far below the numbers encountered these days. That is not to suggest the Beethoven would not have welcomed a larger orchestral complement for any of his symphonies, should suitable venues and sufficient good players have been available.

[ardcarp]

Bryn. I was misleading on that point. A chamber orchestra can play 1,2,3,4, 7 and 8 without the cost of hiring in extras. My thinking was that one might have expected Beethoven to use trombones, piccolos etc in Nos 7 & 8....but he doesn't. I've conducted [or should I say waved a bit of wood at] all the symphonies except No 9, most of them several times, and down at the grass roots level where I operate, the extra expense is always uppermost in an orchestra's finances!

[Barbirollians]

Another very enjoyable account is that of VPO/Bernstein - I have not heard his NYPO recording but that appears to have had very good reviews in the past.

[pastoralguy]

Another very enjoyable account is that of VPO/Bernstein - I have not heard his NYPO recording but that appears to have had very good reviews in the past.

Bernstein's NYPO & VPO recordings of the Pastoral Symphony are my absolute favourite versions so I would expect his No.8 to be outstanding too. I MUST listen to this work tomorrow!

[cloughie]

Bernstein's NYPO & VPO recordings of the Pastoral Symphony are my absolute favourite versions so I would expect his No.8 to be outstanding too. I MUST listen to this work tomorrow!

Any Pastoral for me has to match 50s mono recordings by CAO E Kleiber and BPO Cluytens, and avoid the Klemperer plod but overall it has been well served over the years as indeed has the 8th, of which early likes of mine are Beecham and Jochum.

[Bryn]

If they play at modern pitch in this recording -- which they demonstrably do -- I suppose it's feasible they're playing on HIPP instruments, but not likely ? Whatever they're doing in this piece, it works !

I have now got round to listening and would suggest that at least the trumpets and horns sound natural, i.e. not valved, to me. However, the bassoons sound modern, so perhaps a mix of historical and modern.

[ardcarp]

of which early likes of mine are Beecham

Indeed, I've got the LP. I vaguely recall some comment by Beecham (or was it Boult?) along the lines of " What do you do with that final movement, hopping about all over the place?" Can anyone supply the context?

[gurnemanz]

Been listening to various Eighths on my shelf and cannot resist putting in a word for the Gewandhaus legend Franz Konwitschny from 1961 (the year the Berlin Wall went up), controlled energy and dynamic contrast in a beautifully delineated performance with superb orchestral playing. Certainly a favourite.

[Bryn]

I have now got round to listening and would suggest that at least the trumpets and horns sound natural, i.e. not valved, to me. However, the bassoons sound modern, so perhaps a mix of historical and modern.

I 'd hazard gut strings, too, from the tone of the upper register.

[cloughie]

Indeed, I've got the LP. I vaguely recall some comment by Beecham (or was it Boult?) along the lines of " What do you do with that final movement, hopping about all over the place?" Can anyone supply the context?

I have the Beecham 8th coupled with Schubert Unfinished and Mendelssohn Italian - a nicely filled EMI cd - available on Amazon at not too great a price.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I vaguely recall some comment by Beecham (or was it Boult?) along the lines of " What do you do with that final movement, hopping about all over the place?" Can anyone supply the context?

Beecham (is reputed to have) said of the Finale of the Seventh Symphony, ardy; "What can you do with it? It's like a herd of yaks jumping about!"

[pastoralguy]

Just listening to Karajan's account with the mighty Berliner Philharmoniker, 1960's vintage. With no disrespect intended, how could anyone NOT regard this as a masterpiece?!