Conductor Accompanying Soloist

[richardfinegold]

While listening to the Solti-Ashkenazy Beethoven set, I was trying recall other Concerto recordings featuring Solti as Conductor and not many come to mind. The Ashkenazy cycle is only intermittently successful, with the Emperor, in particular, not sounding as if there was a meeting of the minds. Solti wasn’t much of a Beethovian, so there is that consideration, but I wonder if any Forumites have fond memories of him in that role from his years of work with the LPO. I really don’t remember any of his contributions from seeing him here, and I am wondering if his temperament made him difficult for Soloists.
Other strong willed Conductors can be great and sought after by Soloists. Szell and Fleisher had amazing chemistry despite their differences in age and background. Szell also flourished with Curzon and Serkin. Ormandy was frequently requested by prominent Soloists, most famously by Rachmaninov in his last recordings but also Horowitz when he ended a long retirement with performances of Rach3.
Serkin and Isaac Stern preferred Ormandy to Bernstein but made some great recordings with LB regardless.
Sometimes the Chemistry just isn’t there— Szell-Gilels and Lenny-Gould, for example.
Amongst modern Conductors,Rattle and YNS seem to make good partners. And Haitink, just newly on sabbatical, has an impressive resume in this area

[Conchis]

Solti recorded the Bartok Concertos with Ashkenazy as well.

And, late in his career, he collaborated with Murray Perahia on the first Brahms concerto.

Strangely enough, his first recordings were made as a piano accompanist - to the violinist Georg Kulenkampff.

I don't think of him as a natural accompanist, though - too extroverted - but I don't think he was necessarily deficient in that role. I remember those Ashkenazy Beethovens' quite fondly. :)

[Barbirollians]

While listening to the Solti-Ashkenazy Beethoven set, I was trying recall other Concerto recordings featuring Solti as Conductor and not many come to mind. The Ashkenazy cycle is only intermittently successful, with the Emperor, in particular, not sounding as if there was a meeting of the minds. Solti wasn’t much of a Beethovian, so there is that consideration, but I wonder if any Forumites have fond memories of him in that role from his years of work with the LPO. I really don’t remember any of his contributions from seeing him here, and I am wondering if his temperament made him difficult for Soloists.
Other strong willed Conductors can be great and sought after by Soloists. Szell and Fleisher had amazing chemistry despite their differences in age and background. Szell also flourished with Curzon and Serkin. Ormandy was frequently requested by prominent Soloists, most famously by Rachmaninov in his last recordings but also Horowitz when he ended a long retirement with performances of Rach3.
Serkin and Isaac Stern preferred Ormandy to Bernstein but made some great recordings with LB regardless.
Sometimes the Chemistry just isn’t there— Szell-Gilels and Lenny-Gould, for example.
Amongst modern Conductors,Rattle and YNS seem to make good partners. And Haitink, just newly on sabbatical, has an impressive resume in this area

Solti made some excellent concerto recordings with Kyung Wha Chung - the most beautiful recording I have ever heard of the Berg and of Bartok 1 . A very interesting and enjoyable Elgar and Bartok 2.

[Bryn]

Solti recorded the Bartok Concertos with Ashkenazy as well.

And, late in his career, he collaborated with Murray Perahia on the first Brahms concerto.

Strangely enough, his first recordings were made as a piano accompanist - to the violinist Georg Kulenkampff.

I don't think of him as a natural accompanist, though - too extroverted - but I don't think he was necessarily deficient in that role. I remember those Ashkenazy Beethovens' quite fondly. :)

And let's not forget Solti 'accompanying' Perahia in:

[richardfinegold]

I forgot the Solti Bartók recordings, which may be an exception to the rule. He always did well in that Composer

[Barbirollians]

Solti and Perahia did not make a recording of Brahms 1 - indeed Perahia has never recorded them . His concerto recordings are quite limited in scope.

[Petrushka]

There's a terrific Brahms PC 1 with Andras Schiff and the VPO. He also made some Mozart PC recordings with Alicia de Larrocha but I've not heard any of them so can't comment.

His Bartok and Elgar concerto recordings, already mentioned, are excellent.

[Conchis]

There's a terrific Brahms PC 1 with Andras Schiff and the VPO. He also made some Mozart PC recordings with Alicia de Larrocha but I've not heard any of them so can't comment.

His Bartok and Elgar concerto recordings, already mentioned, are excellent.

Yes, sorry about that. When I said 'Perahia' I meant 'Schiff'! :)

And, yes, that Elgar/Berg VC pairing with Chung on a Decca Ovation CD was hard to beat.

[pastoralguy]

Solti recorded the Bartok Concertos with Ashkenazy as well.

And, late in his career, he collaborated with Murray Perahia on the first Brahms concerto.

Strangely enough, his first recordings were made as a piano accompanist - to the violinist Georg Kulenkampff.

I don't think of him as a natural accompanist, though - too extroverted - but I don't think he was necessarily deficient in that role. I remember those Ashkenazy Beethovens' quite fondly. :)

That Brahms disc was the first of many I've bought of these works. Still one of my favourites.

[Richard Tarleton]

Strangely enough, his first recordings were made as a piano accompanist - to the violinist Georg Kulenkampff.

Indeed - recounted on p. 87 of Solti on Solti.....he talks, earlier, about his work as a répétiteur at the Budapest State Opera - "I don't know how talented I am as a conductor, but I can say without hesitation that I became the best répétiteur ever....I was able to follow the worst singer to hell and back" .....in 1936 he acted as répétiteur for Toscanini, in Figaro, to the latter's evident satisfaction - clearly a useful pianist.

[Braunschlag]

Rach 2, Katchen, LSO. By heck those cellos dig deep at the start. Always thought it was a bit rough and ready though.

[Alison]

A positive vote for Andrew Litton if I may.

We had a good thread on him.

[ardcarp]

I wonder if this thread is up for a discussion which moves away from specific artists, orchestras and conductors; and from well-known ('iconic') performances. Instead we could have a general discussion in line with the thread title. The relationship between the performers has 3 logical elements:

1. Soloist and conductor
2. Soloist and orchestra
3. Orchestra and conductor

In an ideal world, the listener should be blissfully unaware of any of these, but in reality preferences, tastes, egos and competencies rear their heads in varying degrees, and they way they are resolved (or not) is what concertos are all about.

[richardfinegold]

I wonder if this thread is up for a discussion which moves away from specific artists, orchestras and conductors; and from well-known ('iconic') performances. Instead we could have a general discussion in line with the thread title. The relationship between the performers has 3 logical elements:

1. Soloist and conductor
2. Soloist and orchestra
3. Orchestra and conductor

In an ideal world, the listener should be blissfully unaware of any of these, but in reality preferences, tastes, egos and competencies rear their heads in varying degrees, and they way they are resolved (or not) is what concertos are all about.

I intended the thread as a more general discussion of Conductors as accompanist. Fire away!

[ardcarp]

OK. I'm basing my thoughts on the experience I've had of conducting ensembles from small fully professional chamber otchestras, slightly larger semi-pro orchestras and even larger (mainly) amateur orchestras. Even though the concertos I've done have been with professional soloists, we are are of course talking of a much more humble level of music making than that of the great artists and orchestras discussed in the preceding posts. However I'm sure it is not too fanciful to assume that some of the same 'issues' crop up. From my list above:

1. The soloist will in an ideal world be able to spend a little time discussing and maybe demonstrarting his ideas to the conductor before the rehearsal. (Though this is not always the case!) It can be as elementary as tempi, but will also include various nuances (such as rits, rubato, dynamics, cadenzas, etc). Possibly also some more emotional interpretative ideas which are sometimes hard to express (for the soloist) and even harder to comprehend (for the conductor). But there is a much more complicated layer of understanding. Most soloists are understandably 'fixed' in how they want things to go, but in order to achieve this will have a co-operative relationship with the conductor. A few are fairly determined to bash on regardless, maybe not even casting a glance at the podium. The most difficult circumstances for the conductor is where the soloist (and so often pianists are the worst) decide to do something completely different in performance from how they did it in rehearsal! But the conductor's role, whatever the circumstances, is to 'facilitate' the soloists wishes, just so long as the result is achievable with the forces at his disposal.

2. There is nothing lovelier than a soloist who relishes what the orchestra is doing. This may include glancing at (for instance) a woodwind player whose few bars need to synchronise perfectly. My personal preference is for the soloist who, in the Baroque and Classical repertoire, just lets the music unfold without too much affectation. There is often such a joyous understanding between the players in these circumstances that beyond setting a few tempi, controlling some fermata and marshalling the ends of cadenzas, the conductor can just go with the flow. Things are not so easy with later concerti, and Beethoven's Emperor (which was discussed in BAL recently) is much more demanding in the sense that there are points where the conductor needs to be 'in control'...or to be more exact, where control needs to pass between pianist and conductor rather frequently. The same applies to Schumann's A minor piano concerto which I've found quite demanding. The Bruch and Mendelssohn violin concertos OTOH seem to enjoy an interpretative norm amongst players, making the conductor's life a little easier.

3. The relationship between orchestra and conductor is somehow different for concertos than in purely orchestral works. There are occasions when the players clearly don't empathise with the soloist's personality very much and you feel their heart isn't in it! They have a job to do and must be sensitive to the task, but in such cases they tend to over-rely on the conductor to be a sort of referee between the soloist and themselves. How often, when a passage is not as well synchronised as it might be, can the conductor lay down his baton (in rehearsal!) and say, "just listen to each other". This works so well when the chemistry is right...but when it isn't, the conductor has to micro-manage everything. I think this problem occurs at the highest levels of music making (I'm certainly aware of it) and it's probably worst where big egos clash.