Recorders

[Dave2002]

Recorder innovations

This page has some interesting historical detail about innovations in recorders - mostly 20th Century - https://www.recorderhomepage.net/his...corder-design/

[Dave2002]

Just tried an Ecodear soprano recorder - a recent delivery - really brilliant. It's so easy to play. Not sure if it'll always replace my other sopranos, but it may. This could very well be my best recommendation for any sort of plastic soprano recorder, and I think it might beat a lot of wooden ones too. Given the significantly higher cost of wooden sopranos of this sort of quality, this is a very well worthwhile instrument. Thomann have these at a reasonable price - though the delivery charge to the UK is 10 euros, unless you can make up an order to over 149 Euros. Thomann's delivery charges are 10 Euros per item, upto a total order of 149 euros, after which delivery is free.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_yrs_402_b_ecodear.htm

The am.uk price is £24.40 including delivery.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Yamaha-YRS402B-Plant-based-Soprano-Recorder/dp/B015T1CPXY/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Ecodear&qid=1572364390&sr=8-2

I already have an Ecodear alto - which I like, but not more than some of the other altos I have. One possible snag with the Ecodear models is that they may feel a bit too slippery, and might fall out of a player's hands, but at first try the soprano feels really outstanding, and probably in a different league from the rest.

[Beresford]

Does anyone know a source for Early Music scores without bar lines?
Members of my wife's recorder orchestra seem to have difficulty reading eg Byrd's "The Leaves Be Green" with bar lines, and I know it can be easier without them.

[Dave2002]

Really not sure. Sometimes IMSLP has manuscripts, but I had a look for your Byrd example, and there's nothing for that particular piece.
If you have other pieces to look for you could try IMSLP at https://imslp.org/ but there's no guarantee it'll work. If you look for Jacob van Eyck for example, you will find some manuscripts - which are really quite hard to decipher.

Otherwise, you could take the modern edited versions and use Tippex!

[MrGongGong]

Does anyone know a source for Early Music scores without bar lines?
Members of my wife's recorder orchestra seem to have difficulty reading eg Byrd's "The Leaves Be Green" with bar lines, and I know it can be easier without them.

Here you go

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tipp-Ex-Rapid-20ml-Correction-Bottle/dp/B004YK5052

[Dave2002]

Here you go

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tipp-Ex-Rap.../dp/B004YK5052

I thought of that first!

[Beresford]

Does anyone know a source for Early Music scores without bar lines?
Members of my wife's recorder orchestra seem to have difficulty reading eg Byrd's "The Leaves Be Green" with bar lines, and I know it can be easier without them.

Thanks for the Tippex link, but it's not just the bar lines, it's the splitting of say minim's into crotchets to fit round bar lines, so that the phrase doesn't look the same as one played by someone just before. I suppose it's an editorial issue. (or just more practice.)

[Dave2002]

Thanks for the Tippex link, but it's not just the bar lines, it's the splitting of say minim's into crotchets to fit round bar lines, so that the phrase doesn't look the same as one played by someone just before. I suppose it's an editorial issue. (or just more practice.)

In previous centuries copyists could do this sort of thing, though who reads hand written manuscripts now. I have a few, found recently among old papers.

Otherwise get someone to play the piece on a midi keyboard, input into a computer, and reverse engineer the notation, and then manually fix the bar lines and split notes.

Mmm - you wanted some AI to do all that for you ....

[Richard Barrett]

it's not just the bar lines, it's the splitting of say minim's into crotchets to fit round bar lines, so that the phrase doesn't look the same as one played by someone just before. I suppose it's an editorial issue. (or just more practice.)

But it surely wouldn't take long just to copy it out by hand the way you like it.

[Dave2002]

I thought it might be fun to arrange Grieg's "Hall of the Mountain King" for recorders. I went looking for music - https://musescore.com/user/1580161/scores/4836471

Then I found it has already been done for recorders - not sure I really like it. http://ks4.imslp.net/files/imglnks/u...g,_Edvard).mp3

It's quite hard to decide whether the bass line is a string bass or a recorder - probably a recorder. The top lines sound odd too - are they recorders? If recorders they have a very different tone from others I've heard.

Also see http://ks4.imslp.net/files/imglnks/u...g,_Edvard).mp3

I don't know who is in the Papalin Ensemble - but they have a very abridged version of a Beethoven symphony - here - http://cnks4.imslp.org/files/imglnks...010-02-hbr.mp3 The Papalin group seems to have done a lot - do a search to find more.

I suppose playing these pieces can be quite fun, but I'm not sure that listening to them with such reduced forces really hits the spot. Anyone remember the Cambridge Buskers? Party pieces - but otherwise ....???

[Dave2002]

Thomann recorders

I didn't expect Thomann recorders to be very good, and I perhaps haven't been disappointed.

The tenor I ordered doesn't come apart - the joints set solid, so it's going back. Not a great sound either. 1* or perhaps at a pinch a 2* rating.

The bass is a bit better, and is playable, just. It isn't great at the top end, nor is it really that reliable at the bottom either, and some of the tuning/fingering in the middle needs adjusting. However, compared with the nearest competitor it is really cheap.

Maybe 2* to 3* - might just decide to keep that one - but it's marginal.

[Dave2002]

I finally got round to playing the Mollenhauer Adri's Dream soprano I bought some while back from Thomann. Really nice instrument. I may now save up for an alto.

I also found this piece from the 1500s by Nicholaus Craen - Si ascendero in caelum - arranged for 3 recorders.

https://musescore.com/andyblueskies/si-asendero-in-caelum

If you download it, download the MuseScore version and the Musescore program, as that will provide all the options - PDF, MuseScore, mp3 etc. and the ability to print off indivdual parts.

[ardcarp]

Nice piece Dave. Off-topic, but why do some computer-written scores look all wrong and are more difficult to score-read, even in one's head? The spacing of minims and crotchets is compromised. Short rant over.

[Dave2002]

Nice piece Dave. Off-topic, but why do some computer-written scores look all wrong and are more difficult to score-read, even in one's head? The spacing of minims and crotchets is compromised. Short rant over.

Was there something in that particular piece which you didn't like, or are you thinking more generally?

Some of the computer written scores just haven't been laid out properly by the person(s) who wrote/transcribed them. Some may have been OK when they were first created, but then a form of creep or deterioration may set in due to software version changes. For example, there are two versions currently of MuseScore. MS 2 has features (such as Album - useful) which are not in MS 3. The two versions are not completely compatible, but it is possible to migrate files from one to the other - by various means. That process might cause layout features to change.

If you know how to use these packages, it is possible to stretch or shrink the staves to improve the layout and readability. This isn't really too difficult if the pieces are short, though could be a major problem (i.e. a lot of work) for larger scores. Where there are sometimes issues is if some bars go over the page - particularly on the last page. If the preceding bars can be shrunk, or a "return" is removed, then it may be possible to squeeze them back onto the previous page, otherwise the solution is to actually expand the prevous page. This is a similar process in music to text processing. If you have a piece of text which you'd like on 4 sides of A4, then inserting extra text causes text overflow. Careful management - changing the layout, the paragraphs, the line space, even the font can get that sorted, but sometimes there's just too much, and the only other options are to remove text, or increase the space - say - to 6 sides of A4, which may then require everthing to be shuffled around yet again. Other tricks are to use a slightly larger page size for the text creation/edits, then reduce the actual size for printing by a small percentage to fit on A4. These are often matters which someone with experience can sort out - and I suspect it's the same with music scores.

If you can get a computer readable version of a score, it's often possible to change or reset it by various means - even importing it into another package, then exporting it back out again.

Do you have one you'd like to be reset? I could probably do short ones quite easily. If it was something in that particular piece, you can let me know what it was you didn't like, and I could try to fix it.

[Constantbee]

I finally got round to playing the Mollenhauer Adri's Dream soprano I bought some while back from Thomann. Really nice instrument. I may now save up for an alto.

I also found this piece from the 1500s by Nicholaus Craen - Si ascendero in caelum - arranged for 3 recorders.

https://musescore.com/andyblueskies/si-asendero-in-caelum

If you download it, download the MuseScore version and the Musescore program, as that will provide all the options - PDF, MuseScore, mp3 etc. and the ability to print off indivdual parts.

Forgive me if you know this, Dave, but have you ever thought of recording yourself, playing it back and playing a second/third line over the top? It’s hard at first but you’ll soon get the hang of it. Playing duets trains you to hold your part, and it’s ever so good for your confidence.

A while ago I got hold of a CD of 6 Telemann Recorder Sonatas for 2 Trebles (Altos), put together by an early music enthusiast. (He happens to be highly regarded viol maker. I see he’s still about, and you’ll find him if you google Duets for One). You get one line at a time on a download/CD, and a slower tempo option, too. I still use them. If you can manage the Craen piece you’re not far off being able to manage the Telemann.