Joy in music

[jayne lee wilson]

A far Eastern perspective on the meaning of Joy - hopefully a clarification:

https://www.yogajournal.com/lifestyle/feel-the-joy

You do not have to create joy; it is an innate quality already within you, like the capacity to walk or to be kind. You come into this world as an innocent baby with a natural joy. You can still squeal with delight, given the right circumstances. What you likely forget, though, is that you can feel this joy even when the circumstances aren't just right. In fact, this natural joy is available at all times, and you can consciously cultivate it so that it's easily accessible, even during difficult moments

I read the piece.... some mix of Taoism/Buddhism, mindfulness or meditation.... Which needs practice or cultivation?
Again I can only feel largely cut off from such access to the quietened mind....
All too often, no light or uplift can penetrate the darkened soul. I recognise that melancholy can become habitual. In Darkness let me dwell. At times you really do have to dwell there. But then, one becomes a little nervous of its opposite...

I keep trying: this dawn, with Berwald's 1st Symphony, in which there is indeed much that is sunny and joyful. I sat before it. I couldn't respond to it at all until... the adagio just began to filter through the tension, the clouded mind, so short of sleep and peace. I started to enjoy the players' own playfulness in the stretto....!
But then it faded again. But - I kept going to the end. And I did sleep afterward.

Sometimes you just need to keep going, not looking for "joy" or anything like it at all. Perhaps a soothing, a consolation. Hoping that your nerve-set will open up to some responsiveness again. Which for me it seems, can only be spontaneous.
(that essential quote again...."Rarely rarely comest thou, Spirit of Delight...")

[doversoul1]

A far Eastern perspective on the meaning of Joy - hopefully a clarification:

https://www.yogajournal.com/lifestyle/feel-the-joy

You do not have to create joy; it is an innate quality already within you, like the capacity to walk or to be kind. You come into this world as an innocent baby with a natural joy. You can still squeal with delight, given the right circumstances. What you likely forget, though, is that you can feel this joy even when the circumstances aren't just right. In fact, this natural joy is available at all times, and you can consciously cultivate it so that it's easily accessible, even during difficult moments

erm… far-Eastern? Yoga?

[Quarky]

Apologies - Yoga is Indian and therefore Eastern, as is Buddhism, in the main, but not Taoism, which is Far-Eastern.

I don't pretend to have the answers, but these Eastern practices are long term life support systems, not instant quick-fixes. I have followed a very physical type of yoga for about 40 years, and this works for me, in the sense of calming and quietening the mind. According to the Yoga User Manual of Patanjali,Yoga is defined as the removal of fluctuations of the mind- then Joy and other good things can naturally kick-in..

[Bella Kemp]

I have been delighted by all these responses to my original post. So much to explore! In particular, the posts by ferneyhoughgeliebte, jayne lee wilson and vespare have been deeply moving and helpful. Thank you. One last offering from me: Sibelius' Third Symphony - a work that is suffused with joy from start to finish,

[jayne lee wilson]

I would always come back to the Martinu 4th Symphony as one of My Last Things....

I guess because of that overwhelming sense of the joy being so hard-won, an almost physical experience of it bursting through against layers of repression, tension and yearning. A very personal feel of the human spirit, almost as if protesting against its own sufferings - yet attempting some reconciliation with the darker side.

It sings and dances and laments and - finally, shouts for joy.

If you don't yet know it, waste no time......

[Beresford]

Lots of simple delight in the songs of Guillaume de Machaut, and more complex joys in much of Messiaen (not the organ works).
Then there is Michel Legrand's Chanson des Jumelles - like eating a superb chocolate(?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee00hOVe2UY

I often wonder why, for me, the most joyous pieces are all French?

[Beresford]

Again I can only feel largely cut off from such access to the quietened mind....

A little melancholy can add spice to any situation, but it can get out of hand.
In such circumstances, what I do, when I remember, is to watch the melancholy (or whatever), with full attention, like a hunter with a dangerous tiger. Watch it start, watch it continue, and watch it slowly dissolve, without thinking or analysing. Watch the boring interludes carefully, as that is when my mind can wander off, and the tiger can escape.
The rationale is that the watching mind is not melancholic, it is unmoving. But don't think about that when you're watching the tiger, otherwise it will escape and hide in the bushes.

Sorry if this is irrelevant psycho-babble. The process is like listening to very sad music - it doesn't necessarily make us feel sad.

[vinteuil]

In such circumstances, what I do, when I remember, is to watch the melancholy (or whatever), with full attention, like a hunter with a dangerous tiger. Watch it start, watch it continue, and watch it slowly dissolve, without thinking or analysing. ad.

... but do tigers dissolve ?

.

[LMcD]

... but do tigers dissolve ?

.

The Tiger Who Came To Tea may have dissolved sugar in its cuppa.

[Mal]

Joy in Music:

[Pulcinella]

Late to the party (thread):

Tippett: Concerto for double string orchestra.
Even the slower middle movement has a serene 'joy' that gets to me every time!
My partner and I chose it as the background (AARGH! You know what I mean) music before our civil partnership.

Martinu 4, yes, jlw, but marginally 5 wins (though 4 was the symphony I first got to know: Turnovsky).

[jayne lee wilson]

A little melancholy can add spice to any situation, but it can get out of hand.
In such circumstances, what I do, when I remember, is to watch the melancholy (or whatever), with full attention, like a hunter with a dangerous tiger. Watch it start, watch it continue, and watch it slowly dissolve, without thinking or analysing. Watch the boring interludes carefully, as that is when my mind can wander off, and the tiger can escape.
The rationale is that the watching mind is not melancholy, it is unmoving. But don't think about that when you're watching the tiger, otherwise it will escape and hide in the bushes.

Sorry if this is irrelevant psycho-babble. The process is like listening to very sad music - it doesn't necessarily make us feel sad.

Not babble at all, very carefully (and beautifully) expressed.

Like that Tiger, I have tried to see "problems" as clouds, drifting across the sky of my consciousness; tried to watch them as they dissolve or disappear over the horizon.

But I'm not very good at it, my attention soon becomes distracted by thinking....

This is simply a later stage of grief; learning to live with the absence; of the meanings that have been stripped away from all that I do.
Attention-span is the biggest problem now. I catch the feel and the sound of a symphony.... but then it all fades again. I don't know why I'm there. Nature, animals, the garden; the visual and verbal seduction of films - they help more just now.

[Alison]

Schumann Spring Symphony. Lots of music is joyful, or has joyful aspects. But this, to me, is just pure joy.

[gradus]

Strikes me that way too.

[DoctorT]

The 'Resurrexit' from Bach's B Minor Mass