Music on BBC4. Don't die of shock.....

[ardcarp]

Before the skyfalls in maybe I could mention tonight's BBC4 offering?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002k5f

I was glad Michael Berkeley was involved in the programme. He certainly has a deep and personal knowledge of Britten the man....Lennox and all that....and his music.

Having Katie Derham in her long frock chatting with the conductor in his long frock could get tedious. But I guess the Beeb has to make things chatty. Better when she moved to members of the orchestra...and the percussionist was a star wasn't he? I was amused by his jibes at conductors; maybe THE conductor. A good job the cameras avoided other players' faces at that point. After all, it's not exactly like wagging a stick at The Rite of Spring? Anyway, I was just beginning to pray 'Pleasedon'tlettheprogrammefinishwithoutacompletpp erformance' when...wonder of wonders...we got one. And then the programme ended, tastefully, without any ado.

Good to have some 'art music' on BBC4.

PS And the final fugue IS brilliant.

[Serial_Apologist]

It's odd though to hear the piece without the intervening announcements - I'm not at all sure that without them it hangs together as a whole; the fugue appears rather like a rabbit out of a hat.

Oh, while I'm having my usual "go" at Britten, how many other people have noticed how like the theme to "Coronation Street" the oboe interlude is? Same chords, more-or-less, the difference being the oboe instead of trumpet. I'm sure the CS theme's composer had the Britten at the back of his mind when he dreamed that one up. And that rising line of major and minor thirds, just before the fugue enters, gives a clear foretaste of the music that accompanies the empty baseball court after the famous "rumble" in "West Side Story". Perhaps these pre-quotes deserve to go on the thread we devoted to musical similarities, many moons ago.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's odd though to hear the piece without the intervening announcements - I'm not at all sure that without them it hangs together as a whole; the fugue appears rather like a rabbit out of a hat.

Of the many times I've heard the "Purcell Variations", I've only ever heard it once with the spoken bits - it's the narration which sounds odd to me: "Shut up and get on with the Music! What do you think this is? Essential Classics?!"

[Bryn]

Of the many times I've heard the "Purcell Variations", I've only ever heard it once with the spoken bits - it's the narration which sounds odd to me: "Shut up and get on with the Music! What do you think this is? Essential Classics?!"

I rather like Bernstein's Peter and the Wolf without narration, too. For one thing, it can be treated as a 'music minus one' tool.

[ardcarp]

how many other people have noticed how like the theme to "Coronation Street" the oboe interlude is?

I hadn't...but now you mention it
I also like the nod to the 'Tristan' motif...so plagiarism goes both ways!

[cloughie]

Before the skyfalls in maybe I could mention tonight's BBC4 offering?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002k5f

I was glad Michael Berkeley was involved in the programme. He certainly has a deep and personal knowledge of Britten the man....Lennox and all that....and his music.

Having Katie Derham in her long frock chatting with the conductor in his long frock could get tedious. But I guess the Beeb has to make things chatty. Better when she moved to members of the orchestra...and the percussionist was a star wasn't he? I was amused by his jibes at conductors; maybe THE conductor. A good job the cameras avoided other players' faces at that point. After all, it's not exactly like wagging a stick at The Rite of Spring? Anyway, I was just beginning to pray 'Pleasedon'tlettheprogrammefinishwithoutacompletpp erformance' when...wonder of wonders...we got one. And then the programme ended, tastefully, without any ado.

Good to have some 'art music' on BBC4.

PS And the final fugue IS brilliant.

Whoever coined the term ‘art music’. When I first saw it I thought it concerned Impressionist Music or the like. Is there a ‘craft music’ as well?

[Serial_Apologist]

Of the many times I've heard the "Purcell Variations", I've only ever heard it once with the spoken bits - it's the narration which sounds odd to me: "Shut up and get on with the Music! What do you think this is? Essential Classics?!"

Maybe one's responses are conditioned by one's initial version. Although the entire piece is thematically underpinned by the Purcell, (as the programme continually emphasised), without the spoken punctuations the episodic non-sequitur feel of the music was laid bare. For me this is very much in character with much of Britten's music, even applying to the Bridge Variations, wonderful as some of the latter (not all, there's the usual triteness too) are; everything brought to a halt, containerised, with little follow through (as if the composer was scared where his imagination might take things if allowed completely off the leash), and no catharsis; just one thing followed by another.

[ardcarp]

without the spoken punctuations the episodic non-sequitur feel of the music was laid bare

Yes, I know what you mean (see post #10) but it is designed as an educational piece, and even without the narration, those momentary lulls give the teacher/parent or whoever to quickly say 'clarinets next' or something of the sort. Going back to the TV programme, it was interesting that the harpist said her bit didn't lie well under the fingers. Maybe he hadn't met Osian Ellis yet? I haven't time to look up the order of compositions right now, but Ceremony of Carols harpists admire BB's idiomatic writing.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I rather like Bernstein's Peter and the Wolf without narration, too. For one thing, it can be treated as a 'music minus one' tool.

I had the Bernstein recording on LP in the 99p "Prokofiev's Greatest Hits" release, in which the work was presented as a Tone Poem. As S_A suggests, it might be a case of "imprinting", but I much prefer it like this.


Edit: This one -



... super collection, P&W, Lieutenent Kijé, Classical Symphony, 3 Oranges March.

[ardcarp]

Whoever coined the term ‘art music’.

Not sure. It does sound as if it refers to some sort of genre (e.g. art nouveau, art deco) but it's really a way of describing music which is loosely referred to as 'classical'. But most musicians use 'Classical' as referring to a specific period. It seems impossible to find a term which isn't pompous, condescending, cliquey or plain inaccurate. 'Serious' music just won't do as it's not necessarily serious! 'Our sort of music' implies exclusivity. Ditto 'intellectually conceived' music. You can't even define it by saying what it isn't. 'Non-popular' opens a whole can of worms.

So if anyone's got a better phrase than 'art music'...which I agree isn't ideal...let's have it!

[Mary Chambers]

The Ceremony of Carols (1942) predates the YPG by a few years.

Britten’s collaborations with Osian Ellis were largely in the 1960s and 70s. Ellis is still around, 91 years old now.

I couldn’t help wondering if the NOW harpist’s comments were a reflection of her ability rather than the harp writing, though perhaps that’s rather unkind.

I wonder if the term ‘art music’ comes from America, like ‘art song’. I just call it music myself. It’s genres like rock and pop that need other names! I remember when Amazon divided its music section into ‘music’ and ‘popular music’, and then at some point changed it to ‘music’ and ‘classical music’. Sign of the times.

[ardcarp]

Thanks Mary!

I just call it music myself. It’s genres like rock and pop that need other names!

I agree, but unfortunately when (for instance) quiz shows on TV or radio say 'now it's the music round', nine times out of ten it ain't...er...art music!
Same applies to Friday evenings on BBC4.

[Once Was 4]

The Ceremony of Carols (1942) predates the YPG by a few years.

Britten’s collaborations with Osian Ellis were largely in the 1960s and 70s. Ellis is still around, 91 years old now.

I couldn’t help wondering if the NOW harpist’s comments were a reflection of her ability rather than the harp writing, though perhaps that’s rather unkind.

I wonder if the term ‘art music’ comes from America, like ‘art song’. I just call it music myself. It’s genres like rock and pop that need other names! I remember when Amazon divided its music section into ‘music’ and ‘popular music’, and then at some point changed it to ‘music’ and ‘classical music’. Sign of the times.

Regarding the harpist in the YPG programme she was clearly well on top of things; the harp entry in the fugue is often a problem but she coped extremely well in my opinion. I found the programme a huge disappointment - especially the usual stupid comments about the 'fuddy-duddy' (or whatever, I do not remember) classical music world. Classical music is exciting!
In fact we have been treated to similar rubbish in the Yorkshire Post newspaper recently by a journalist who has probably never been near a symphony concert.

Was it just me or was the BBCNOW let down by the sound people? There was an almost unpleasant sound quality which I do not normally associate with this orchestra.

About two years ago I played with the excellent Haffner Orchestra in Lancaster in two performances of the YPG: the first was at the University of Lancaster as part of their normal concert series. The second was a school's concert at Lancaster Town Hall. The conductor, Bob Chasey (then just about to retire from the BBC Philharmonic) introduced each section with toy instruments that he had fashioned out of various houshold items. The children loved it! I will never forget the beams on their faces when they were queuing for their buses back to school and we were leaving the hall; the cries of "thank you mate" and even high fives to members of the orchestra. That's the way to do it!

[Bryn]

This is somewhat akin to my growing up in the '70s with the narrator-less 'Popular Song' from Walton's Façade (theme tune of the BBC's Face the Music programme). Whenever I hear the narrated version I wish they'd shut up so I can hear all that syncopated wit.

Similarly I wasn't aware of the vocal parts for the Polovtsian Dances until maybe 20 years after I discovered that piece - but choruses hardly intrude on the musical aspect of a piece.

"Narrated"? The Sitwell poems are the very basis of the work. Without them its little more than frippery. How can one relate the orchestral suites to Pierrot Lunaire, thus losing half of the fun?

[On the subject of Facade, I do with they would get round to issuing a CD transfer or lossless download of the Berberian/Tear/Bedford recording (replete with Facade 2) issued by OUP. I have the LP, but a re-issue from teh masters would be very welcome.]

[ardcarp]

Well, the Popular Song (and others) can stand alone. But I'm with you Bryn..the Sitwell poems are what this work is about. And I have a personal interest as an oft-times 'narrator' ....not a particularly apt word in this case...in Facade. I can remember the first time I did it as a student, sharing the numbers with Ilona Sekacz, a talented composer with much film and TV work to her credit. We didn't use megaphones behind a curtain but dressed in 1920s period costume and played it 'straight'. It tickled the audience no end, even if it wasn't strictly HIPP.